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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) China's View of Trump's Trade War! (Read 1404 times)
BobK71
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #120 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:02pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 25th, 2018 at 1:58pm:
The days of gold and silver-backed currencies are over. (Gresham's Law)

Fiat currencies are here to stay, because that's the only way the Fed can maintain/manipulate inflation. 

We *might* see the emergence of a National Crypto-currency, but it must not be finite.  There must be some way to increase the money supply so inflation can be maintained.


I'll read that overview soon.  I happen to believe it's good news that gold and silver standards (exactly as implemented by the elites of the past) are done with.

I've predicted elsewhere that the new 'hard-money standard' will be inclusive (multiple non-state monies,) and flexible (ie with continuous devaluation of currencies, effectively, over the long term.)  There is now more, not less, reason to bet on non-state monies.

In a real sense, we've never left the gold standard.  It's just that the elites were forced to have major 'devaluations' since 1971.

As far as silver is concerned, I just noticed that, in the very first official devaluation of currency against gold, ever, in the Anglo-American world, in 1934, silver appreciated better than gold against the dollar.  So, you can see that, even in 1934, the elites had started to prepare for a post-gold-exclusivity world.  And that's very bullish for silver.
  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #121 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
I'll read that overview soon.  I happen to believe it's good news that gold and silver standards (exactly as implemented by the elites of the past) are done with.

I've predicted elsewhere that the new 'hard-money standard' will be inclusive (multiple non-state monies,) and flexible (ie with continuous devaluation of currencies, effectively, over the long term.)  There is now more, not less, reason to bet on non-state monies.

In a real sense, we've never left the gold standard.  It's just that the elites were forced to have major 'devaluations' since 1971.

As far as silver is concerned, I just noticed that, in the very first official devaluation of currency against gold, ever, in the Anglo-American world, in 1934, silver appreciated better than gold against the dollar.  So, you can see that, even in 1934, the elites had started to prepare for a post-gold-exclusivity world.  And that's very bullish for silver.
I learn that you like fiat money, but think private currencies will be better than State Central Bank fiat money...

Which will be true if they are backed by something real... (but no government issuing fiat money will allow real money to compete...)

You say there will be "continuous devaluation of currencies"?


How will that be accomplished in a free market for money?

You say we've never really left the gold standard? Cheesy

Please tell me what you think a gold standard is, thanks.
  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #122 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:01pm
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I wonder what our military in the South China Sea are authorized to do in encounters with the PRC Army Navy Marines Airforce.

They have a natural right of self defense, right?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #123 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 8:48pm
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
In a real sense, we've never left the gold standard.  It's just that the elites were forced to have major 'devaluations' since 1971.

The gold standard was a system by which the value of the dollar was defined in terms of gold, for which the dollar could be exchanged.

The gold standard ended in 1933. 

FDR signed Executive Order 6102 which made it a criminal offense for any U.S. citizens to own or trade gold anywhere in the world.

The following year, (1934) the Gold Reserve Act required that all gold and gold certificates held by the Federal Reserve be surrendered and vested in the sole title of the Department of the Treasury.



  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #124 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:34am
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Some thoughts on Trumps trade war from Bill Bonner-

http://thecrux.com/who-will-trust-america-after-this/
  
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BobK71
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #125 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
I learn that you like fiat money, but think private currencies will be better than State Central Bank fiat money...

I like free-market money, period.  'Fiat' is by definition government-controlled.  (Money is called into being by 'fiat.')
Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
Which will be true if they are backed by something real...

Free-market money could be backed by anything.  It's in the eye of the beholder what is real.  Let them who think it's real, put their money into it.  As long as there is no state intervention, financial markets should resolve the issue of 'realness.'
Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
(but no government issuing fiat money will allow real money to compete...)

But a lot of third-world governments have gone from crazily issued money to backing their issuance with dollars (and back and forth)...  Are we seeing a US version of that right under our noses?

Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
You say there will be "continuous devaluation of currencies"?

How will that be accomplished in a free market for money?

There has never been a real free market for money since the Spanish Empire.  The foreseeable future is likely to be the same.
Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
You say we've never really left the gold standard? Cheesy

Please tell me what you think a gold standard is, thanks.


Since we've covered these ground many times, I would encourage you to re-read what I wrote before.  Most of these points eventually went unanswered by you, so please understand if I seem reluctant to go over them again.

It seems radical to say we've never left the gold standard.  But (as I wrote before,) if you see the gold standard for what it truly was, a tool for suppressing gold prices, and you see that gold price suppression has never stopped, then in a real sense, we've never left the gold standard, just a declared one.
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:35pm by BobK71 »  
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BobK71
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #126 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:21pm
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I wrote, "In a real sense, we've never left the gold standard.  It's just that the elites were forced to have major 'devaluations' since 1971."

SkyChief wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 8:48pm:

The gold standard was a system by which the value of the dollar was defined in terms of gold, for which the dollar could be exchanged.

The gold standard ended in 1933. 

FDR signed Executive Order 6102 which made it a criminal offense for any U.S. citizens to own or trade gold anywhere in the world.

The following year, (1934) the Gold Reserve Act required that all gold and gold certificates held by the Federal Reserve be surrendered and vested in the sole title of the Department of the Treasury.


Well, we first have to think, what was the major feature of the gold standard?  The major feature was to prop up the value of central bank paper money by suppressing the price of gold in paper money terms.  The central bank stood ready to sell gold at the fixed price to any comers, so gold would never appreciate.  Savers 'had better' get into assets based on paper money to get any return.

This must have been the major intent of the gold standard, since otherwise why would the elites have supported it?  The argument that it helped keep financial inflation down was probably valid to a certain extent, but couldn't have been the major motivation, because Britain held only 3% of the gold required to redeem all its paper issuance, on the eve of World War I.  If keeping paper issuance down had been the major intent, the British elites must have fallen asleep for at least 100 years.  (When it comes to the elites, think cynical, and you won't be far off!)

The history you refer to shows the gradual retrenchment of the gold standard from stability to (inevitable) instability requiring more than more financial repression.  After 1933, foreigners could still keep their gold, if they wanted to bet against a US gold juggernaut now reinforced by additional gold from confiscation and a 70% devaluation.  By 1945, only foreign governments were allowed to redeem dollars for gold at the fixed price.  Governments are far easier to control than individuals, but by 1971 democratic forces in Europe had forced their governments to ask for gold anyway.

This process of destabilization and increasingly overt repression was more evidence of the gold standard's deceptive nature from day one.  By the postwar era (and especially after Western governments created the 'gold pool' to suppress 'market' gold prices before 1971) all pretension to the gold standard's supposed purpose as a check against financial inflation had been lost, and yet its feature of suppressing gold prices remained for as long as the US elites could manage it -- now you see what is core, and what is window dressing.

So if the core nature of the gold standard was gold price suppression, and that reality has lasted to the present time, we can say with a straight face that we've never left the gold standard.  We've left the gold standard of propaganda, but not the gold standard of reality.  (And guess what, we have a better version of the gold standard, with continuous 'devaluations' over the long term.  Of course the elites can't continue to call gold money, unless they're insane!)

Legalisms like the definition of the dollar are adopted and cast aside by the elites, as suits their interests.  What we have to do is to see through all the deception to the true nature of their system.
  
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BobK71
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #127 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 5:39pm:
I noticed. So what?

There was a pretense that when the Soviet Union imploded, communists and Communism had somehow magically disappeared from the earth...

Do you buy into that?


Of course not.  But their continued existence doesn't mean they are the deep state.

In fact, quite the contrary.  In any vision of a future quasi- or full socialist world, say free-health-care, universal-basic-income system, etc. money would become less important.  In the Soviet Union, money had little say over who got what, which was determined by allocations.  (Money was not much more than an accounting system for, basically, state-directed trading.)

When money is less important, the Western state-bank alliance loses part of the use of its ultimate advantage, its ability to understand money and to control it to benefit itself.
  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #128 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:02am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:33pm:
I like free-market money, period.  'Fiat' is by definition government-controlled.  (Money is called into being by 'fiat.')
Free-market money could be backed by anything.  It's in the eye of the beholder what is real.  Let them who think it's real, put their money into it.  As long as there is no state intervention, financial markets should resolve the issue of 'realness.'
Private banks besides the Fed could issue banknotes just like FRNs, backed by nothing, but people wouldn't accept them. The only reason people use FRNs are legal tender laws. As long as the law says that FRNs are legal tender, privately issued money won't be used.

Anyway, as far as I know, FRNs are controlled by the Fed, not the government. Certainly there is collusion.
  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #129 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:05am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:33pm:
There has never been a real free market for money since the Spanish Empire.  The foreseeable future is likely to be the same.

That doesn't speak to your claim that there will a continuous devaluation of free market money. How and why would that occur?
  
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