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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) China's View of Trump's Trade War! (Read 1389 times)
Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #50 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:02pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:04am:
As I mentioned, I hear you, but the wealth is either gone or has never been there in the first place.  You either acknowledge the fact and move on, or pretend the wealth is still there.  These are your only choices.  I'm only saying the former is far better than the latter.

Another virtue of inflation or default is that it helps expose the system to the public.

I think we've gone through the same grounds here too many times already.
The Federal Reserve Bank has over $4 trillion in assets on it's books. They are not all phony assets.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/understanding-the-fed-balance...

There is no virtue in alerting people to the dangers of inflation by causing a hyperinflation, or making people finally realize that the government has taken on too much debt by defaulting on the debt.


  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #51 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:08pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:10am:
Not socialist, but a patriotic government who dared to defy the international imperial-money system and do what it thought was in France's best interest, disregarding the false morality upheld by a corrupt world system.

A good part of the false morality was to cloak itself with the moral honor of commitment to debt repayment, while the system was designed from day one to take from everyone by reneging on debt.
Yeah yeah, but France kept getting more and more socialist and they are probably underwater with debt again like every other government.
  
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #52 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:11pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 11:35am:
If Nixon had never taken the US dollar off the Gold Standard,  there wouldn't be any discussions about GDP-to-National Debt ratios, or Inflation,  or quantitative easing, or quantitative tightening, or bailouts, etc, etc...

Nixon gets my vote for the 2nd Most Short-Sighted President in US history - he did almost as much damage to the country as Wilson, who gave us the Federal Reserve Bank and Income Taxes.
Nixon did that so that all our gold would not flow out to other countries who were redeeming their FRNs for gold. By Nixon's time, foreign governments were the only entities that could redeem FRNs for gold.

It was FDR who confiscated our gold, forced us to accept FRNs in return, and set things up so foreign governments could get the gold that had been confiscated from Americans.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #53 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:11pm:
Nixon did that so that all our gold would not flow out to other countries who were redeeming their FRNs for gold. By Nixon's time, foreign governments were the only entities that could redeem FRNs for gold.

It was FDR who confiscated our gold, forced us to accept FRNs in return, and set things up so foreign governments could get the gold that had been confiscated from Americans.

All true, but you're missing the critical flaw of Nixon's ill-fated decision to end the dollar's convertibility to gold:

The Banks could print money at will, without having gold reserves.  This led to runaway National Debt.

  
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Jeff
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #54 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:53pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:41pm:
All true, but you're missing the critical flaw of Nixon's ill-fated decision to end the dollar's convertibility to gold:

The Banks could print money at will, without having gold reserves.  This led to runaway National Debt.

http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/econ/Brill-nom-US-national-debt.gif
I'm aware of that, but when Nixon was President, the only people who could convert dollars to gold were foreign Central Banks, and allowing that to continue would have drained all of our gold reserves.

The Fed was already printing FRNs to fund the Vietnam War and the Great Society before Nixon was elected, which is why the gold was starting to drain away to foreign Central banks at increasing rates..


  
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BobK71
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #55 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 3:49pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 11:35am:
If Nixon had never taken the US dollar off the Gold Standard,  there wouldn't be any discussions about GDP-to-National Debt ratios, or Inflation,  or quantitative easing, or quantitative tightening, or bailouts, etc, etc...

Nixon gets my vote for the 2nd Most Short-Sighted President in US history - he did almost as much damage to the country as Wilson, who gave us the Federal Reserve Bank and Income Taxes.


The 'fiat' money system may be the worst (not 100% sure on that,) but is not the only money system by which the central bank, government and private banks forcibly strip wealth from the rest of the population.

Another major type is called the gold standard.  (But this works only if the central bank has enough gold at whatever price it decides to set gold at.)

1971 was only a transition from one system of theft to another (arguably more rapid and unstable) one.  Nixon inherited the draining of gold reserves from decades of propping up the value of dollars in gold, and had no choice -- one way or another, the (however limited) convertibility of dollars into gold, at the official price, had to stop.
  
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #56 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:03pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 3:49pm:
1971 was only a transition from one system of theft to another (arguably more rapid and unstable) one.  Nixon inherited the draining of gold reserves from decades of propping up the value of dollars in gold, and had no choice -- one way or another, the (however limited) convertibility of dollars into gold, at the official price, had to stop.


One lesson we can learn from 1971 (and indeed from all the other endings of the gold standard around the world before that) is that the gold standard's primary goal was never really to stop elite-driven financial inflation, as advertised by mainstream economists in its day.  If that had been the primary goal, it must have been so ineptly done that every single country failed in its implementation.

If 50 men have all failed trying to pee as far as 20 feet, perhaps we should start questioning the value of setting this goal.  Or even better, we should start questioning why everyone was pretending this goal was legitimate.

The answer, as is usual in the modern world system, is that the entire thing, down to the mainstream economist narratives, is deceptive.  The purpose of the whole system was to allow the elites to issue paper money and debt with impunity.  In this, the elites succeeded for centuries (which they usually do.)
  
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #57 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:23pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
One lesson we can learn from 1971 (and indeed from all the other endings of the gold standard around the world before that)


So I have been reading a lot lately about the 14th Century, and France.  They didn't use much Gold back then.  But they had coinage and trade.  Oddly, to us, the wages for the entire century were pretty much fixed.  Three generations, no pay increase. 

For the elites; after the Black Death wiped out half the peasants, the manor class did not want to go without.  The King did not reduce the royal tithes.  So everyone just doubled the taxes owed by the serfs (who really were slaves since quitting the employ of your manor house carried a death sentence).  So - half your family wiped out, just pay double the taxes - problem solved.  The merchant and manufacturing classes were so small at the time that it was not an option to go get a job.  It took a lifetime of work to apprentice to be a cabinet maker.  Brigantry (mercenaries) were a common way for some men to make more money.  The lords almost never paid the agreed wages, but you sometimes got some spoils to make up for it.  Of course, your mercenary career will end in battle when your side loses, so you can't spend your gains.

What works, and still works, is to just become a member of the elite!  Problem solved.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #58 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
The purpose of the whole system was to allow the elites to issue paper money and debt with impunity.  In this, the elites succeeded for centuries (which they usually do.)

Indeed they did.  But no World Reserve Currency lasts forever.

The USD is long overdue for a collapse - bubbles can only get so big.


"We have gold because we can not trust our governments". - Herbert Hoover

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value."
– Alan Greenspan
  
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Re: China's View of Trump's Trade War!
Reply #59 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 3:49pm:
1971 was only a transition from one system of theft to another (arguably more rapid and unstable) one.  Nixon inherited the draining of gold reserves from decades of propping up the value of dollars in gold, and had no choice -- one way or another, the (however limited) convertibility of dollars into gold, at the official price, had to stop.
Sorry, no. Nixon inherited huge deficit spending and money creation that led directly to foreign Central Banks wanting gold while they could still get it cheap. The Feds inflation scared the world's Central Bankers, so they panicked and all rushed to cash out for gold.

It's probably a good idea to set some sort of gold/silver exchange ratio. Maybe not.

But it's a known good idea to force the government to give you something of equal value when you give them Silver Certificates or U.S. Notes.

I have a couple of each, common ones in not very good shape, but they promise me that the government will give me silver in exchange.

They won't.
  
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