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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy (Read 954 times)
SkyChief
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #60 - Jul 29th, 2018 at 3:19pm
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In Canada we switch back and forth between the Liberals and the Conservatives because neither government solves the growing problems of the people.

Government's purpose is not to solve problems of the people.

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

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I don't think libertarians are even aware of what the problems are.

The above quote by TJ kinda shows that we ARE aware of what the problems are.

Ronald Reagan affirmed this:

"Big government isn't the answer to the problem, it IS the problem."
  
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Jeff
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #61 - Jul 29th, 2018 at 4:55pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 29th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Government's purpose is not to solve problems of the people.

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

The above quote by TJ kinda shows that we ARE aware of what the problems are.

Ronald Reagan affirmed this:

"Big government isn't the answer to the problem, it IS the problem."
I think you've scared off Dick! Thanks. Kiss Kiss Kiss
  
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SkyChief
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #62 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 1:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 29th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
I think you've scared off Dick! Thanks. Kiss Kiss Kiss

Just one more for good measure:

  
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The Opposition
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #63 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:04pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
Socialism is general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.


So does capitalism, primarily because it tends to decay into socialism.

There is a question to be answered with each philosophy, and so far no one has answered either satisfactorily.

Socialism: When no one is rewarded for anything, how do you make people work hard enough to keep everyone from starving?

Capitalism: If you want capitalism with a limited government, how do you keep the government from becoming unlimited?

(And no, "the people must be vigilant" is not an answer unless you detail what they are supposed to do about it when they see it.)


Start at 3:12

What was Milhouse supposed to do to prevent the factory from falling, Jeff? He was plenty vigilant. It wasn't enough.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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SkyChief
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #64 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:12pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Socialism: When no one is rewarded for anything, how do you make people work hard enough to keep everyone from starving?
Threaten to send them to the gulag for low productivity.

The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Capitalism: If you want capitalism with a limited government, how do you keep the government from becoming unlimited?

Two steps;

1) Ratify a Constitution that clearly enumerates the power and purpose of government.

2) Enforce it.  When Congress members violate their oath, or squander taxpayer's money,  try, convict, and punish them. Publicly.
  
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Jeff
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #65 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:13pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
So does capitalism, primarily because it tends to decay into socialism.

First, "capitalism" is not a system of government, it is simply what people do when they have economic freedom.

Yes, it is difficult to keep a system of government of any kind from infringing on economic liberty. The only feasible way is to bind the government down by law and make sure the laws are enforced.

The problem America ran into was having the government unlawfully "interpret" the law so as to pretend it gives the government power to control the economy, which is does not.

The solution is to emend the Constitution to make it clear the neither the general welfare nor commerce clauses are grants of general power.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #66 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:24pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:12pm:
Threaten to send them to the gulag for low productivity.


Doesn't work. They find ways to seem productive or make excuses as to why they are not productive.

Socialism at this level suffers from the same problem every workplace suffers from: Bosses do not understand who is productive and who isn't. So much effort is invested in deception and deception detection, as well as office politics, that nothing else gets done.

Without the ultimate failure factor that comes into play when a business isn't producing anything of value and so no one buys it, work does not work because bosses have monkey brains.

In capitalism, every business is monkey business.

And in socialism - in a command economy - you just gave everyone the same terrible boss, without the threat of business collapse due to total nonproductivity.

Fail.

SkyChief wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:12pm:
Two steps;

1) Ratify a Constitution that clearly enumerates the power and purpose of government.

2) Enforce it.  When Congress members violate their oath, or squander taxpayer's money,  try, convict, and punish them. Publicly.


Who punishes them?

Jeff wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:13pm:
The solution is to emend the Constitution to make it clear the neither the general welfare nor commerce clauses are grants of general power.


Who amends the Constitution this way?
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #67 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 3:18pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:24pm:
Who amends the Constitution this way?
The Article V procedure that seems most likely to be used involves the states calling a convention. Get control of your state legislatures and keep suggesting it to them.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #68 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 5:56pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:24pm:
SkyChief wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

2) Enforce it.  When Congress members violate their oath, or squander taxpayer's money,  try, convict, and punish them. Publicly.


Who punishes them?
Senate Judiciary Committee.  If the person being impeached is a sitting member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, then a surrogate will be selected by the A.G.
  
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Jeff
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Re: After seeing the collapse of the socialist Venezuela economy
Reply #69 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 7:16pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:24pm:
Doesn't work.
True. Economic "systems" only work well over time when people are free.
  
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