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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Libertarian Party needs change (Read 1849 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #90 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:26pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
I think you misunderstood, Andrew.

When I said "the Libertarian Party isn't interested in cutting or lowering Income Tax", I meant exactly that.

The Libertarian Party wants to ABOLISH taxes completely!
But they are foolish enough to want to remain "pure" and not tell everyone they want taxes as low as possible, and legally applied taxes, until somebody can figure out how to fund government by donations? Has that been tried anywhere?

I think communes are the closest thing to funding government by donations, and they always fail.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #91 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:26pm:
But they are foolish enough to want to remain "pure" and not tell everyone they want taxes as low as possible, and legally applied taxes, until somebody can figure out how to fund government by donations? Has that been tried anywhere?

I think communes are the closest thing to funding government by donations, and they always fail.

We could revert back to funding the government like we did before the Income Tax. 

It worked very well from 1796 to 1913!

(We'd need to eliminate a lot of social programs, and close over 700 non-essential military bases to get the government back to its pre-1913 size.) 
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #92 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:06pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:38pm:
We could revert back to funding the government like we did before the Income Tax. 


Sure we could, all we have to do is reduce the government back to what it was at that time, once again apply the Constitutional limits on the taxing power, and make clear that the commerce clause and the general welfare clause do not grant any general powers.

There are no general powers granted by the Constitution.

England's Parliament had general powers, which is why the colonies fought to be independent, so they could create a government with only specific enumerated powers.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #93 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:15pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:06pm:
There are no general powers granted by the Constitution.

There certainly is in the 16th Amendment:


"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

I always cringe whenever I read the words Congress, shall have, and POWER in the same sentence.

Especially in the Constitution!   Shocked
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #94 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:37pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
There certainly is in the 16th Amendment:


No Chief, you are wrong. The granted powers of taxation remain strictly limited.

It is only the 'progressive" interpretation of the meaning of the 16th Amendment that grants an unlimited power to levy Direct taxes without apportionment, just as the "progressive" interpretation claims the commerce and general welfare clauses are unlimited powers.


  
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Andrew_Armao
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #95 - Aug 21st, 2018 at 12:39am
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:38pm:
We could revert back to funding the government like we did before the Income Tax. 

It worked very well from 1796 to 1913!

(We'd need to eliminate a lot of social programs, and close over 700 non-essential military bases to get the government back to its pre-1913 size.) 


The government must be a tenth it's current size, modeled after pragmatic function. If a program doesn't perform under budget, it is ELIMINATED.
  

Andrew J Armao
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #96 - Aug 21st, 2018 at 8:26am
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Andrew_Armao wrote on Aug 21st, 2018 at 12:39am:
The government must be a tenth it's current size, modeled after pragmatic function. If a program doesn't perform under budget, it is ELIMINATED.
All of the current government "programs" are over funded. They "perform" under budget every year, right up until the last quarter, when they hurry to spend what's left in their budgets so they can ask for more money (and get it) next year.

The keys to shrinking government are holding them to the limitations on the taxing power and holding them to only the enumerated powers and duties that were granted and assigned to them.

What stands in the way of that is the "progressive" interpretation of the commerce and general welfare clauses of the Constitution as general powers, and the "progressive" interpretation of the taxing powers and their limitations as allowing Direct taxes without apportionment and Indirect taxes without uniformity. The "progressive" claim that the 16th Amendment allows unlimited progressive taxation is spurious, as is the "progressive" claim that Indirect taxes may be non-uniform as long as they are "geographically" uniform.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #97 - Aug 21st, 2018 at 11:43am
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Andrew_Armao wrote on Aug 21st, 2018 at 12:39am:
The government must be a tenth it's current size, modeled after pragmatic function. If a program doesn't perform under budget, it is ELIMINATED.

Nice!   Smiley


I think if we can reduce the power and scope of government to a quarter of its current size, Income Tax could be eliminated, and Americans would keep $5 Trillion of their earnings.

The economy would be booming - creating millions of jobs.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #98 - Aug 21st, 2018 at 5:00pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 21st, 2018 at 11:43am:
Nice!   Smiley


I think if we can reduce the power and scope of government to a quarter of its current size, Income Tax could be eliminated, and Americans would keep $5 Trillion of their earnings.

The economy would be booming - creating millions of jobs.
Great idea Chief! Lets reduce the power by making it clear to the government that the commerce and general welfare clauses are not grants of general power, and that powers not enumerated have not been given to them.


  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Libertarian Party needs change
Reply #99 - Aug 21st, 2018 at 5:31pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 21st, 2018 at 5:00pm:
Great idea Chief! Lets reduce the power by making it clear to the government that the commerce and general welfare clauses are not grants of general power, and that powers not enumerated have not been given to them.

Excellent.  It's about time to reign in our government.

They're drunk with POWER!   Shocked

We need to sober them up!  Get back to a more essential government.
  
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