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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Spectrum of Human Behavior (Read 347 times)
The Opposition
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #20 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:28pm
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I just don't have rights. Read for yourself.

Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


I've accepted that I don't have rights, and it's fine. I'm also vastly better off as a slave, so that only my master can kill me, rather than a "free good" that anyone can kill.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #21 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:28pm:
I've accepted that I don't have rights, and it's fine. I'm also vastly better off as a slave, so that only my master can kill me, rather than a "free good" that anyone can kill.
Libertarian ideas say you do have rights as long as you are human and not a criminal. Anyone who kills you will be punished by the law. If you happen to be killed by another prisoner when both of you are in a maximum security prison, that prisoner will be charged and prosecuted for your murder, because our laws respect the right to live even for most criminals.

You idea that individuals are ''free goods" rather than free people is fundamentally wrong. It is the idea behind human chattel slavery, that people can be owned and bought and sold as "goods".
  
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The Opposition
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #22 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:10am:
Libertarian ideas say you do have rights as long as you are human and not a criminal.


Wrong. You've said, over and over, that I have to understand rights your way in order to have them.

Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


The joke is that I do understand rights your way. I agree that they work exactly as you describe, and that I don't have them.

I just think that's not fair. But because I think that, you deny me rights on the basis that I don't understand them. It proves you're a just a rights nazi who can't even let people have an opinion.

Jeff wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:10am:
Anyone who kills you will be punished by the law.


Because the law is wrong and unlibertarian. I disagree with it.

Jeff wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:10am:
You idea that individuals are ''free goods" rather than free people is fundamentally wrong. It is the idea behind human chattel slavery, that people can be owned and bought and sold as "goods".


It's not my idea. It's a libertarian idea.

https://mises.org/library/democracy-god-failed-1
A member of the human race who is completely incapable of understanding the higher productivity of labor performed under a division of labor based on private property is not properly speaking a person, but falls instead in the same moral category as an animal — of either the harmless sort (to be domesticated and employed as a producer or consumer good, or to be enjoyed as a “free good”) or the wild and dangerous one (to be fought as a pest).
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #23 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 4:44pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
Wrong. You've said, over and over, that I have to understand rights your way in order to have them.


What I was trying to say is that if you don't understand rights or believe that they exist, you are almost certain to be a criminal of some sort.

You are babbling about something very different.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #24 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:51am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Ideally the government should just take supergeniuses like me and create a slave population. I'm better off, because I get to reproduce. They're better off, because they don't have to deal with the collapse their dysgenic reproduction is brewing. They want all the stuff? They can have it. I don't care about stuff. I never have.


Interesting idea if you mean that you super-intelligent beings should be the slaves to normally intelligent folk running government.

Would you be something like the "mentats" in the novel Dune?  Or would you be similar to computers which must be kept in check to avoid achieving self-awareness and taking over the world?

How could we average to above average IQ people keep you in check?  Would we somehow diminish you physically so that you could not use your super intelligence against us?  Would we have a race of people like Stephen Hawking, barely able to move their bodies but able to do our intellectual heavy lifting for us?

For those who accept the idea that the state has the moral right to force individual sacrifice for the good of the collective, I don't see how they could object. 

Jeff?


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Jeff
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #25 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 11:48am
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SnarkySack wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:51am:
Interesting idea if you mean that you super-intelligent beings should be the slaves to normally intelligent folk running government.

Would you be something like the "mentats" in the novel Dune?  Or would you be similar to computers which must be kept in check to avoid achieving self-awareness and taking over the world?

How could we average to above average IQ people keep you in check?  Would we somehow diminish you physically so that you could not use your super intelligence against us?  Would we have a race of people like Stephen Hawking, barely able to move their bodies but able to do our intellectual heavy lifting for us?

For those who accept the idea that the state has the moral right to force individual sacrifice for the good of the collective, I don't see how they could object. 

Jeff?



I don't think making the lizard a slave would benefit the collective, because if the collective rules, the lizard is already a slave like everyone else.

If the collective isn't ruling, why would anyone want to voluntarily take on the responsibility of feeding the lizard? Let it try so sell it's talents on the free market.

The most probable reason its begging to be enslaved is that nobody will hire it! Grin
  
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The Opposition
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #26 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 1:52pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:51am:
How could we average to above average IQ people keep you in check?


Breed for docility and keep us apart so we can't conspire.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #27 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:51am:
Interesting idea if you mean that you super-intelligent beings should be the slaves to normally intelligent folk running government.

Would you be something like the "mentats" in the novel Dune?  Or would you be similar to computers which must be kept in check to avoid achieving self-awareness and taking over the world?

How could we average to above average IQ people keep you in check?  Would we somehow diminish you physically so that you could not use your super intelligence against us?  Would we have a race of people like Stephen Hawking, barely able to move their bodies but able to do our intellectual heavy lifting for us?

For those who accept the idea that the state has the moral right to force individual sacrifice for the good of the collective, I don't see how they could object. 

Jeff?


I must tell you, I hoped to draw intelligent responses about my suppositions about human behavior.

You can learn something about Hawking if you want to, but what you learn won't be of much use in understanding human behavior, because Hawking was so exceptional.
  
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Jeff
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #28 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 29th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
It's not political, but it has a left, which I will arbitrarily say is the set of people who have given themselves over totally to their lizard brains, or try to. They are the few radical extremists of the left.

At the other end of the spectrum, the right end, way out there, are extremists who try to conquer their lizard brains (and often believe that the only way they can do that is to destroy or control everyone's lizard brain).

Obviously you can expect bad results for extremists...

Libertarians, I will assert on experience and anecdotal knowledge and second hand accounts and reading history etc. are right in the middle.

They tend to be balanced responsible people who also like to have fun. They use the parts of their brain together, rather than fighting themselves internally like extremists do.

Notice that extremists are bunched up at both extreme ends...

I have to revise the spectrum, it is not a line with two ends, it's more of a circle, because the extremists from both ends overlap.

Red could explain it in technical mind scientist terms if he was here.



I decided to go back and read what I first posted, to see if it made sense. I think it does.

Edit: I want you to have a chance to get in on the beginning.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: A Spectrum of Human Behavior
Reply #29 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 12:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 29th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
It's not political, but it has a left, which I will arbitrarily say is the set of people who have given themselves over totally to their lizard brains, or try to. They are the few radical extremists of the left.

At the other end of the spectrum, the right end, way out there, are extremists who try to conquer their lizard brains (and often believe that the only way they can do that is to destroy or control everyone's lizard brain).

Obviously you can expect bad results for extremists...

Libertarians, I will assert on experience and anecdotal knowledge and second hand accounts and reading history etc. are right in the middle.

They tend to be balanced responsible people who also like to have fun. They use the parts of their brain together, rather than fighting themselves internally like extremists do.

Notice that extremists are bunched up at both extreme ends...

I have to revise the spectrum, it is not a line with two ends, it's more of a circle, because the extremists from both ends overlap.

Red could explain it in technical mind scientist terms if he was here.





The political spectrum can be a circle but that just unnecessarily complicates things.

I like the idea of it being a straight line better with all the extremists at one end.

But if we consider it to be a circle, where in that circle is libertarian views? Top, bottom, left, right, otherwise?

I think that libertarianism as it's being interpreted here on this forum is somewhere outside the circle, with a few ideas breaking through to inside the circle. For example, it's certain that the notion of there being no taxation or especially no income taxation, can never be inside the circle.

So there's an opening in the circle for libertarians. But the opening is closing fast because November is getting too close.

I'm afraid that people like the Chief are already resigned to failure.
  
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