Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge (Read 767 times)
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7224
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Jul 30th, 2018 at 3:41pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Let's be honest, libertarians are just rights Nazis.

"No rights for you!"

Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:04am:
But it's really your refusal to admit that you are human that makes me say you don't have the rights that every human is born with.


I guess you actually believe I'm Vulcan. (We're still the same species, bro, since I can make halfbreeds with your females.)

But this is actually what's incredibly disturbing to anyone but a libertarian about your viewpoint.

Can you imagine the scene at the end of the First Contact movie with a libertarian there? Everyone else is filled with wonder and awe to meet actual aliens and Jeff blows their heads off with a shotgun because only humans have rights.

Libertarians are sick in the head. If my sentience and ability to reason isn't enough to grant me rights, I don't want them.


Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 3:02pm:
Actual aliens might or might not be human, but the determination won't be made (I hope) based on their appearance, but on how they treat other humans. Hopefully they will be human (no matter what they look like) and will recognize that most of us are human too, meaning they will respect our rights, and we will respect theirs.


But see here, we learn that refusing to violate rights is not enough. Respecting rights means refusing to violate them - for the right reason.

Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:33am:
The Opposition wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
I have told you, many times, that I respect the rights of others. That's not good enough for you.


No, you have to convince me you actually believe that natural rights exist and that every human is born with them.


Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal. You are a trained tiger, not killing and eating it's trainer because it has learned it will be punished and/or rewarded for acting as if it actually respected the rights of it's trainer, which it doesn't. Like you, a trained tiger can't understand and internalize that others have rights, so it has only animal rights itself.


Here's the challenge: Find me an example of what you think is some horrible tyrannical act and explain to me how libertarians running the world and just stripping the rights of (I'm sorry, defining out of having rights) the victims would be any different.

And don't say it's just internet trolls who would do this. Hoppe says in Democracy: The God that Failed that people who don't think the way he says they should, are essentially animals to be gunned down and made into grain-free dogfood.
A member of the human race who is completely incapable of understanding the higher productivity of labor performed under a division of labor based on private property is not properly speaking a person, but falls instead in the same moral category as an animal — of either the harmless sort (to be domesticated and employed as a producer or consumer good, or to be enjoyed as a “free good”) or the wild and dangerous one (to be fought as a pest).

And would you think Jeff is the only one who thinks I don't have rights here? You'd be wrong. Merklestan, Don, Jeff, and I believe Kaz all agree that I don't have rights.

I happen to agree with them, and I support libertarianism anyway.

But why should the average person who can't be beaten into self-sacrifice to the point of suicide advocate a system where it's so easy to define people out of having rights? Shouldn't someone who knows he might not have rights, really and truly, advocate a system that will pretend he does?

And why hasn't Don been defined out of having rights? He doesn't believe the right things either.

Furthermore, since I agree with every principle of libertarianism as correct (I just think the free market doesn't always work as advertised), and I'm still defined out of having rights because I don't think correctly enough, how many people do you suppose actually have rights? 1% of the population?

Wouldn't that remaining 99% do better to start treating the libertarians with flamethrowers, so that they can continue to pretend to have rights? After all, the libertarians can turn flamethrowers on these poor non-rights-having, [non]-souls any time they want.

Of course it would be wrong for those without rights to attack the star-bellies? *cough* I'm sorry! I mean, the libertarians.

But wrong or not, wouldn't the non-rights-having population do better to impose or maintain tyranny (and here I just mean not-libertarianism) so they can live in harmony and have criminals punished, even if the criminals don't deserve to be punished because they didn't violate any rights?

What I'm asking is, what is someone without rights to do about a pseudo-rights-violation? That is, an act that damages him and would be a rights violation if he had rights?
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #1 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 7:20pm
Print Post  
fooch?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #2 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 7:16am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
What I'm asking is, what is someone without rights to do about a pseudo-rights-violation? That is, an act that damages him and would be a rights violation if he had rights?
Unless you actually look like the dragon you say you are, just pretend you're human and file a complaint in the courts.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #3 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:08pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 7:16am:
Unless you actually look like the dragon you say you are, just pretend you're human and file a complaint in the courts.
Something that causes you damage or harm is not a "pseudo" violation, it is an actual violation.

Just act human and relate your complaint to the police or magistrate.

They won't ask (as long as you look even vaguely human) "Are you human?" "Do you claim human rights for yourself?"

They will just ask you to explain what happened.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #4 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:25pm
Print Post  
Do you not think that would work for you?

Why not?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #5 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:28pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:25pm:
Do you not think that would work for you?

Why not?
OK, maybe you smell like thermie and have the look about the eyes of Charles Manson or Dennis Mahon...

That might cause the police or magistrate to classify you as an animal...

Not my problem.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7209
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #6 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:44pm
Print Post  
If a person wants his/her rights respected, he/she must be willing to assert them.

If you get pulled over for a traffic infraction, and the LEO says he needs to search your car, and you let him, then congratulations - your 4th Amendment right just got violated - by an officer of the Law! 

Now, isn't that ironic?    Our rights are being violated by those who are sworn to protect them.

Know your rights.  Assert them. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andrew_Armao
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 4th, 2018
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #7 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
You see Opposition, Jeff is acting the part of a Moral Busibody, giving out purity tests as though he is a priest.

I understand his viewpoint, that the world is as it is perceived by the individual perceiving it. Therefore, if you don't recognize his view your not the same as him. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED to be the same.

The hilarious hypocrisy and paradoxical situation here, is that perception by a person is indeed what makes us human, but, no two people perceive the world identically, let alone comparatively. Liberty, would acknowledge people of any kind of intellect, or any kind of idea, for argument into the best ideas.

I would never want EVERYONE to believe identically, because furious debate sharpens ourselves into a stronger society, never being afraid of things that are different or unknown. It would be impossible for everyone to believe the same anyway, so it is utterly redundant to even fathom.

There are realms outside of our perception, we only experience the universe through what we directly contend with; if all humans left, the world we knew would leave with us. With this understanding looking at reality itself, our eyes only allow us to see fragments of what is actually in front of our faces.

A human putting his foot down saying I have rights is uniquely human, but not exclusively in an infinite reality we exist in.
  

Andrew J Armao
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #8 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 7:05pm
Print Post  
Andrew_Armao wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 6:41pm:
You see Opposition, Jeff is acting the part of a Moral Busibody, giving out purity tests as though he is a priest.

The Opposition told me it was a Dragon, and it consistently refuses to say it's human.

If you want to make a judgement that The Opposition is lying, that's fine.

Until it says differently, I will continue to believe it is an animal as it said is is.

It's not exactly a purity test or a moral judgement to say that animals don't have human rights.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #9 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 7:08pm
Print Post  
Andrew_Armao wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 6:41pm:
A human putting his foot down saying I have rights is uniquely human, but not exclusively in an infinite reality we exist in.
Right, but someone who keeps putting its foot down to say it is not human must be respected in it's decision.

Otherwise, we will be left deciding for ourselves, and might be like tribal people and say that all "others" are not human.

It's like trans stuff. If you see yourself as an animal, who can argue?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy