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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #20 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 8:26am
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The case has not changed that you want to deny discoverers of new rights.

But when a libertarian discovers a right, it must be respected by all.

But you'll still find ways to subdivide ad infinitum until you get exactly the advantages you want out of rights.

That's the key here. A libertarian will never say, "Well, I don't like that this person has this right, but I'll respect it anyway."

You'll just subdivide and reinterpret until you get the result you want.

SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 1:26pm:
If government were to ban guns, it would take away our means of self-defense, and that would be immoral.   If government were to ban (ownership of) tigers, no rights were violated - it is not immoral.


If you want A, but not B, you'll simply discover rights so they cover A but not B.

Jeff wrote on Aug 3rd, 2018 at 8:11am:
There is no right to not be offended. Imaging that one exists results in the absurdity of no one being allowed to speak at all, because anyone can claim to be offended by anything.


Same for intellectual property. Eventually, all songs will be discovered, so you won't be able to sing any more.

Eventually, everything will be invented, so you won't be able to build anything.

Jeff wrote on Aug 3rd, 2018 at 8:16am:
Claiming ownership of something you didn't create is absurd.


Then intellectual property dies with its inventor. If you can pass it to whoever you like, then you can give the right to use it to every black person, but not any white person.

Like it or not, cultural appropriation is a type of intellectual property claim.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #21 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 8:58am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 8:26am:
Same for intellectual property. Eventually, all songs will be discovered, so you won't be able to sing any more.

Eventually, everything will be invented, so you won't be able to build anything.
The idea of protecting intellectual property that is in the Constitution is a temporary grant of monopoly on your idea so that innovation and discovery will be rewarded and thus encouraged. If was never intended to grant permanent ownership, in fact, the language of the Constitution prevents that.

BTW, you are free to sing even the newest copyrighted song any time you want to, you just aren't allowed to profit from it by performing it for money.

Only Luddites think that "eventually everything will be invented", and guess what? The patents on most things that were invented so far have run out, so you can make whatever was invented and sell it for profit... Steam powered cars are something you might want to set your mind to improving and selling. Use your imagination.
  
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #22 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 9:03am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 8:26am:
Then intellectual property dies with its inventor. If you can pass it to whoever you like, then you can give the right to use it to every black person, but not any white person.

If the copyright is still in force when you die, your heirs have rights to it, or you can leave it to whoever you want to in a will, including leaving it to everyone if that's what you wish.

I think copyrights in the U.S. are currently granted for too long a term, but I don't think Congress has time to take up changing the law in that area...
  
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thermf5
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #23 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 10:41am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:08pm:
Something that causes you damage or harm is not a "pseudo" violation, it is an actual violation.

Just act human and relate your complaint to the police or magistrate.

They won't ask (as long as you look even vaguely human) "Are you human?" "Do you claim human rights for yourself?"

They will just ask you to explain what happened.

u are couse people harm by crzateing a family and community  and u colonalist audtude is can couse harm its people like u that crate mass shooters u can neer understand that the nurotypics are the problem u sauy u want liberty yet u want to enslave childern u are not liberal sand u will never be but never are the dems or the gop or the green
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #24 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 2:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 9:03am:
If the copyright is still in force when you die, your heirs have rights to it, or you can leave it to whoever you want to in a will, including leaving it to everyone if that's what you wish.

I think copyrights in the U.S. are currently granted for too long a term, but I don't think Congress has time to take up changing the law in that area...


The claim that copyrights are valid is not possible without the claim that intellectual property is valid without copyrights. Laws should protect rights; they can't create them.

Members of the cultures who claim cultural appropriation are making IP claims. It's not invalid.

You simply don't recognise them, which I am arguing that you should have every right to do when someone discovers a new right.

thermf5 wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 10:41am:
u are couse people harm by crzateing a family and community  and u colonalist audtude is can couse harm its people like u that crate mass shooters u can neer understand that the nurotypics are the problem u sauy u want liberty yet u want to enslave childern u are not liberal sand u will never be but never are the dems or the gop or the green


That's what they do, Therm. It's all dominance to them. They will create their rules deliberately so they are allowed to abuse people within them, and when the abused react, it will be a violation of those rules.

They don't really believe in any rules, you see. They just want dominance without the threat of retaliation when they hurt others.

It used to be that bullies had to take that risk. In prehistory, hyper-dominance always carried with it hyper-risk. The more people you hurt, the more people could act against you.

Now, the bullies make the rules so that no one can fight back.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #25 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 4:40pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
The claim that copyrights are valid is not possible without the claim that intellectual property is valid without copyrights. Laws should protect rights; they can't create them.

There is no right to a copyright or patent. They are issued as limited term government privileges, the only actual entitlements that exist in the U.S.

The concept of intellectual property is certainly valid and has been recognized in the civilized West for centuries. That's why it came to us in the common law we inherited from England,  and why we have kept it.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #26 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 5:45pm
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You didn't address the simple fact that legitimate laws protect existing rights; they don't create them.

Therefore, if copyrights are legitimate, intellectual property is a legitimate right without them.

The people that don't want their cultures appropriated - they don't want aspects of their culture that they have the IP rights to through use, copied - have every right to claim IP.

You just don't want to recognise it when people strap you down and tell you what you can and can't do, even if they discover rights to do it.

I agree. I don't think people should be able to discover rights and unilaterally impose restriction of action on others.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #27 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 7:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
You didn't address the simple fact that legitimate laws protect existing rights; they don't create them.

Intellectual property was recognized as property centuries ago, and property rights deserve the protection of the laws, so they sometimes get it.

Need I be more clear?
  
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #28 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 4:44pm
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Lizard, save time and effort, just give us your comprehensive theory for why rights don't exist, including your best condensed and simplified arguments... You know, so us non-superganiuses can have a chance at understanding your argument?

Try to make it clear and as short as possible, and use words in their standard meanings.

Thanks.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #29 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:11pm
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I acknowledge rights do exist. They're just not fair because you have them and I don't.

I'd like to live in a world where rights have to be mutual or they can't be discovered.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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