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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #30 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:39pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I acknowledge rights do exist. They're just not fair because you have them and I don't.

I'd like to live in a world where rights have to be mutual or they can't be discovered.
Your initial premise, where you sought to show that libertarians don't afford full rights to everyone, is not even close to being proven. You haven't provided even one argument that is even slightly persuasive.

That everyone has the same rights and that the law should respect and protect everyone's rights equally are basic ideas of all libertarians.

It's difficult not to say something rude such as "You couldn't discover your own ass with both hands in bright daylight", but I will resist! Kiss
  
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #31 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 6:39pm:
Your initial premise, where you sought to show that libertarians don't afford full rights to everyone, is not even close to being proven.


Yes, it's proven. I have proven it cleanly.

Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


merkelstan wrote on Feb 28th, 2017 at 11:15pm:
Rothbard's criteria makes more sense, because not only does the entity have to demonstrate conscious thought, it needs to understand the concept of rights and demand them for itself.

Amusingly, The Opposition would fail that test.  I still can't get-over what a mental trainwreck his (her?) "concept" of rights was.


Jeff wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 9:20am:
The Opposition wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 10:39pm:
That to have rights, a being needs to understand them (agree with exactly how libertarians think they work) and demand them for itself.

I might want rights, but I don't think they [ought to] work the way Rothbard says they do, and furthermore I have a moral objection to making such a demand.


This is what, as far as theories of human rights go, makes you the equivalent of a wild beast. You either can't understand, or refuse to understand, that very human is born with the exact same rights.


Libertarians discover rights so they don't have to share, because they never learned to.

They create a very elegant system of rights that would work well if everyone had them.

But because they're spoiled two-year-olds who can't share, they can't share the rights.

The ability to share is fundamental to human psychology, even if you don't think you should have to. Libertarians will never be able to affect change in the world, because they lack that ability.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #32 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:06am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:23pm:
Libertarians discover rights so they don't have to share, because they never learned to.

Libertarians share as much or more than people with other political ideas, and far more than people in socialist countries where rights are not respected and there is therefore almost never much for individuals to share.
  
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #33 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 1:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 8:06am:
Libertarians share as much or more than people with other political ideas, and far more than people in socialist countries where rights are not respected and there is therefore almost never much for individuals to share.


I think it's been pretty well demonstrated that libertarians can't share.

I've met legit neo-Nazis who think black people have more rights than you think I have.

That is sad. Not for me, but for you.

It's sad because libertarianism is such a good philosophy. The trouble is, it's pushed by such rotten people that it'll never get off the ground.

A great idea can come from really bad people, and Hitler had several really great ideas. Really he only had one bad one, which was killing Jews.

Likewise, libertarians have created this amazing philosophy. It's probably thanks to the fact that they can't share that they've come up with brilliant ways to live together without having to, and what this does that no other philosophy even attempts is that it finally punishes cheaters - those like welfare queens who exploit the fact that everyone else has to share.

But Libertarians destroy the shining philosophy they created because they're spoiled two-year-olds who can't share. Even rights become toys for them to rip out of another child's hands as they go, "MINE MINE MINE!!!"

Sad, sad, sad.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #34 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 1:46pm:
I think it's been pretty well demonstrated that libertarians can't share.

Where and when and by who please and thanks.
  
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #35 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 10:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 4:53pm:
Where and when and by who please and thanks.


By you, when you said I didn't have rights.

It's because libertarians can't share that even rights become one more toy for you to rip out of the other child's hand and go, "MINE MINE MINE!" because you're a spoiled little two-year-old.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #36 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 7:17am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 10:00pm:
By you, when you said I didn't have rights.

I will say it again. If you are an animal as you say you are, not human, then you do not possess human rights. No animal has human rights, but they do have animal rights.
  
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #37 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:34pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 7:17am:
I will say it again. If you are an animal as you say you are, not human, then you do not possess human rights. No animal has human rights, but they do have animal rights.


I have claimed to be a dragon and a Vulcan, both highly intelligent creatures.

If you are going to blow the heads off the Vulcans when they land, because only humans have rights, as everyone else is extending the hand of friendship, that's your problem, not mine.

It doesn't expose that rights ought to be denied to other intelligent beings; it exposes libertarians for the screeching, tantrum-throwing, violent two-year-olds they are who developed rights so they didn't have to share, but because they never learned to, they can't share even the rights.

I still claim to be a Vulcan. And I do this with a straight face (lol). You say I have no rights? What about half-Vulcans? Do you just flip a coin every time you want to violate their rights? And if it comes up tails, you can shoot them?

You know this is absurd. And furthermore you know it makes YOU look absurd, not me.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #38 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:57pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
I have claimed to be a dragon and a Vulcan, both highly intelligent creatures.

From what I know of Vulcans, they qualify as humans. Strange humans, but human.

Dragons don't.

I didn't notice you clam to be a Vulcan... Which is it, Vulcan or dragon.


Anyway, it's not about how you look or how intelligent you might be, it's about how you act towards others. The most human seeming human can lose all of their rights by murdering other humans.

When you said you don't believe that rights exist, you put yourself in a class with mass murderers or serial killers, who also don't believe that people have rights. Cry
  
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #39 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 1:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
Anyway, it's not about how you look


Yes it is. You just said Vulcans have rights but dragons don't.

If it's about anything but how beings happen to look, you couldn't make such a pronouncement. You would have to evaluate each intelligent being on an individual basis.

And if you dare try to evaluate an individual being and strip it of rights based on how its fellows behave, you're nothing but a damn racist.

You have no idea what gives anyone rights. You just know you're a screeching two-year-old with a nice toy, called rights, so you go, "MINE MINE MINE!" and do everything possible so you don't have to share it.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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