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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #40 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:42pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 1:46pm:
Yes it is. You just said Vulcans have rights but dragons don't.

Based on how they treat humans, yes, that's exactly what I said.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #41 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 9:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:42pm:
Based on how they treat humans, yes, that's exactly what I said.


So judging a person by his fellows? That's racism.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #42 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 7:58am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 9:44pm:
So judging a person by his fellows? That's racism.
No, I'm judging entities by how they treat people.

From what I know of Vulcans, they treat humans as if humans have rights i.e. they respect the rights of humans, so I conclude that Vulcans are human.

From what I know of dragons, they treat humans like prey, so I conclude that dragons are not human.

Of course I really know very little about either Vulcans or dragons... Which is it that you claim to be? Your most current claim that is...
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #43 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 12:02pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
I have claimed to be a dragon and a Vulcan, both highly intelligent creatures.
.


Sad that you're allowed to continue to destroy the credibility of this forum with that kind of nonsense. Couldn't your 'dragon and vulcan' crap be confined to the off topic section?

I'm going to approach Land of Freedom again on this issue. That doesn't mean it will be a mention of your name, just a general plea for some sanity.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #44 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 1:36pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 7:58am:
they respect the rights of humans


This is you judging people by their race instead of individually. There were evil Vulcans mentioned in Star Trek (one mentioned in Darkling), they were just very, very rare.

Dragons are the opposite. There are good dragons mentioned across the whole of fantasy, (Draco being a great example) but they are the minority.

It's a good thing that even when people write fiction, they're smart enough not to stick to ridiculous premises like "all Vulcans are good" or "all dragons are evil". These sweeping statements are so flat absurd when dealing with living, intelligent beings, they would completely spoil the immersion.

We're working with fiction, yes. And I managed to find established counter-examples.

Your conception of the rights of the individual being judged by the behaviour of the species is laughable.

But let's use your logic (and I use the term very loosely).

It is clear from the constant brutality and oppression the human species inflicts that humans are the ones who don't have rights.

Humans don't respect the rights of others. As a rule, they don't. Therefore they don't have rights.

Quote:
I'm going to approach Land of Freedom again on this issue.


Report me more, report bunny. You're not doing it for "sanity" - you're doing it because I'm asking the tough questions and you don't like it.

You're also butthurt because I found a way to discuss the issue without mentioning real-life races, so you'd look ridiculous if you just won with your usual cry-racism crap.

Jeff is actually being racist - indicating that at his very core, he is racist - and you don't care because he's clever enough to seem PC when you're looking.

You know Rothbard himself used the same basic metaphors I'm using to elucidate the issue, right?

https://mises.org/library/rights-animals
Quote:
What of the "Martian" problem? If we should ever discover and make contact with beings from other planets, could they be said to have the rights of human beings? It would depend on their nature. If our hypothetical "Martians" were like human beings — conscious, rational, able to communicate with us and participate in the division of labor — then presumably they too would possess the rights now confined to "earthbound" humans.

But suppose, on the other hand, that the Martians also had the characteristics, the nature, of the legendary vampire, and could only exist by feeding on human blood. In that case, regardless of their intelligence, the Martians would be our deadly enemy and we could not consider that they were entitled to the rights of humanity. Deadly enemy, again, not because they were wicked aggressors, but because of the needs and requirements of their nature, which would clash ineluctably with ours.


Now call your hero insane, if you dare. Report him. Demand that nothing Rothbard ever wrote should be posted here because it's childish.

Too bad your stooge Land of Freedom won't read this post and is too lazy to understand what's going on, on his own forum. He'll read it if you clip out this bit, though, so go ahead.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SicklersDink
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #45 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 3:40pm
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Oppo, Rothbart is retarded dirt.

Why would anybody feel threatened by Martians, Vulcans, or other imaginarty characters you dream up.

Grow up and stop spamming this forum. LofF may indeed care if you are ruining his forum. Let's not have to put it to the test junior.
  
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #46 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
This is you judging people by their race instead of individually. There were evil Vulcans mentioned in Star Trek (one mentioned in Darkling), they were just very, very rare.

Right, there are evil humans too, so what?

Vulcans use logic to determine that civilizations can be created and maintained if people respect the rights of others...

And it is a logical conclusion. But also a fantasy.

Law and law enforcement are required to maintain any civilization.

No, I'm not talking about Secret Police maintaining barbaric governments.

Edit: I told you I had limited experience with Vulcans, but that from what I knew of them, they were human, and it seems you've agreed. Kiss
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #47 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 10:33pm
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Quote:
Oppo, Rothbart is retarded dirt.

Why would anybody feel threatened by Martians, Vulcans, or other imaginarty characters you dream up.

Grow up and stop spamming this forum. LofF may indeed care if you are ruining his forum. Let's not have to put it to the test junior.


I told you I'd stay out of the main forum if you stay out of off-topic. If I was really ruining it, and if you cared, like you pretend to, it'd be the perfect solution.

Jeff wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:38pm:
Right, there are evil humans too, so what?


To that I reply: There are evil dragons too. So what?

You didn't address my basic point. Yes, the vast majority of Vulcans are good and the majority of dragons are evil. There are counter-examples to both. Even despite both being fiction! Good writers know you will have counter-examples when dealing with intelligent beings. You don't seem to get it.

Why should this mean Vulcans get rights and dragons don't?

Your argument is racist. You are judging individuals by the group they happen to belong to.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #48 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 6:13am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 10:33pm:
You didn't address my basic point. Yes, the vast majority of Vulcans are good and the majority of dragons are evil. There are counter-examples to both. Even despite both being fiction! Good writers know you will have counter-examples when dealing with intelligent beings. You don't seem to get it.

Why should this mean Vulcans get rights and dragons don't?

Your argument is racist. You are judging individuals by the group they happen to belong to.
Why do most Vulcans respect the rights of others?

Why do no dragons think of humans as anything but prey?

Edit: Don't tell me about "good" dragons, they don't exist. They are a fantasy/
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: How a Libertarian Strips Rights: A Challenge
Reply #49 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 1:01pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 6:13am:
Why do most Vulcans respect the rights of others?

Why do no dragons think of humans as anything but prey?

Edit: Don't tell me about "good" dragons, they don't exist. They are a fantasy/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCjNQqRdv7U


that's the only dragon grownups talk about.
and not on this section of the forum.
  
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