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The Opposition
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Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Sep 1st, 2018 at 2:33am
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When some racial groups out-achieve others, bias of the dominant racial group is the default culprit.

Catchup measures are therefore warranted, and put into place, requiring unbiased hiring, which is actually just requiring quotas.

This supposedly somehow balances out the bias, but it also creates bias where there was none before.

From little Timmy's perspective, he gave his all, he graduated top of his class - he thinks he earned that job. When someone else was selected to meet a quota, Timmy feels cheated.

What Timmy doesn't realise is that Tommy also gave his all. Tommy gave every bit of effort Timmy did, and perhaps more. Only, Tommy didn't graduate at the top of that class because Tommy was born with less raw potential.

Instead of discussing this issue for what it is, the issue will be obfuscated and if Timmy is hired, both Timmy and his employer will be turned into bigots and villains, Timmy a privileged lazy son of a bitch whose gifts are wasted on him, and the employer a greedy racist scumbag who shouldn't even have been born at all.

The plain truth is that some groups achieve higher because they have just a few measly IQ points on the others. A tiny boop to the average can mean there are huge differences in outliers (*coughs*).

This is why Asians do so well. They're a minority. They're sometimes persecuted. Heck, we put them in concentration camps for crying out loud. Instead of whining and demanding reparations, the Japanese Americans said to this: Shikata ga nai.

Yet we're to believe that minorities are so fragile on the basis of simply not being the dominant culture that every blow must be paid back forever - unending reparations? Once knocked down, a minority can never get up without recompense?

It's obviously not true. Asians prove this.

The difference in groups' achievements is because of IQ. It has nothing to do with racial bias.

If you're for social justice, a catchup measure that is based on individual IQ will solve every problem Affirmative Action solves AND do justice to those for whom injustice was created by Affirmative Action.

Instead of Timmy and Tommy, let's examine Tony and Toby. They're born with the same IQ. They give the same effort. Whichever one is born black will get the job. Wait a second... Did someone just get a job because of nothing more than his race? Isn't this the very thing Affirmative Action is supposed to fix? Isn't this the thing they tell us is anathema, absolutely shouldn't happen at all costs, so we have to address it with law?

Assessing catchup measures by individual IQ will solve this problem, and do everything Affirmative Action does, only better.

If you reply that there shouldn't be any catchup measures, then you didn't read the post. This post is not about whether catchup measures are just - it's about whether they are functional, or not, at achieving their stated goals.

The conclusion of this post is that Affirmative Action is dysfunctional because it creates the very injustice it seeks to destroy. Assessing catchup measures individually would still advantage the groups that "need" it, but it would not create this added injustice.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #1 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:00pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2018 at 2:33am:
When some racial groups out-achieve others, bias of the dominant racial group is the default culprit.

Catchup measures are therefore warranted, and put into place, requiring unbiased hiring, which is actually just requiring quotas.

This supposedly somehow balances out the bias, but it also creates bias where there was none before.

From little Timmy's perspective, he gave his all, he graduated top of his class - he thinks he earned that job. When someone else was selected to meet a quota, Timmy feels cheated.

What Timmy doesn't realise is that Tommy also gave his all. Tommy gave every bit of effort Timmy did, and perhaps more. Only, Tommy didn't graduate at the top of that class because Tommy was born with less raw potential.

Instead of discussing this issue for what it is, the issue will be obfuscated and if Timmy is hired, both Timmy and his employer will be turned into bigots and villains, Timmy a privileged lazy son of a bitch whose gifts are wasted on him, and the employer a greedy racist scumbag who shouldn't even have been born at all.

The plain truth is that some groups achieve higher because they have just a few measly IQ points on the others. A tiny boop to the average can mean there are huge differences in outliers (*coughs*).

This is why Asians do so well. They're a minority. They're sometimes persecuted. Heck, we put them in concentration camps for crying out loud. Instead of whining and demanding reparations, the Japanese Americans said to this: Shikata ga nai.

Yet we're to believe that minorities are so fragile on the basis of simply not being the dominant culture that every blow must be paid back forever - unending reparations? Once knocked down, a minority can never get up without recompense?

It's obviously not true. Asians prove this.

The difference in groups' achievements is because of IQ. It has nothing to do with racial bias.

If you're for social justice, a catchup measure that is based on individual IQ will solve every problem Affirmative Action solves AND do justice to those for whom injustice was created by Affirmative Action.

Instead of Timmy and Tommy, let's examine Tony and Toby. They're born with the same IQ. They give the same effort. Whichever one is born black will get the job. Wait a second... Did someone just get a job because of nothing more than his race? Isn't this the very thing Affirmative Action is supposed to fix? Isn't this the thing they tell us is anathema, absolutely shouldn't happen at all costs, so we have to address it with law?

Assessing catchup measures by individual IQ will solve this problem, and do everything Affirmative Action does, only better.

If you reply that there shouldn't be any catchup measures, then you didn't read the post. This post is not about whether catchup measures are just - it's about whether they are functional, or not, at achieving their stated goals.

The conclusion of this post is that Affirmative Action is dysfunctional because it creates the very injustice it seeks to destroy. Assessing catchup measures individually would still advantage the groups that "need" it, but it would not create this added injustice.


I don't know why no one is answering this very intelligent and thought provoking post.

IQ as been proven by mind scientists to be the number one predictor of success in any career.  So clearly people with high IQ's have a systematic advantage that should be corrected.  Unless one is a g-ist* who believes that people with high IQ's somehow "deserve" to succeed more than other people. 

The reason that we do not have affirmative action according to IQ is that IQ has never been singled out as a way to divide people.  Popular culture currently chooses to divide people by race, gender (all of them), nationality, religion, language, etc.  Divisiveness by IQ simply hasn't come into vogue yet.  Maybe when it is featured on "The View" our statist friends on here will take notice.

Good post though.

*If anyone reading doesn't know what being a "g-ist" would have to do with intelligence, don't worry.  You are probably safe from Opposition's plan to discriminate by intelligence.


  

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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #2 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 1:05pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:00pm:
I don't know why no one is answering this very intelligent and thought provoking post.

Affirmative Action is bullshit regardless what it's based on.

Affirmative Action is just another authoritarian, BIG-GOVERNMENT, Nanny-State program which costs US taxpayers billions of dollars.

Affirmative Action is not needed.  It should be abolished.
  
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #3 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:49pm
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #4 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:51pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2018 at 2:33am:
If you're for social justice, a catchup measure that is based on individual IQ will solve every problem Affirmative Action solves AND do justice to those for whom injustice was created by Affirmative Action.


There is no such thing as "social justice." That is another of those Newspeak neologisms, like "positive rights," invented by statists to justify various kinds of rights violations.

Quote:
The conclusion of this post is that Affirmative Action is dysfunctional because it creates the very injustice it seeks to destroy. Assessing catchup measures individually would still advantage the groups that "need" it, but it would not create this added injustice.


There is no injustice in racial discrimination or in any other basis for discrimination, unless the discrimination is practiced by the State. No one has any right to associate with someone who does not wish to associate with him, or to any other person's services absent a contract, or to enter upon anyone else's property without permission, regardless of the reason for the refusals. Since no one's rights are violated by discrimination no injustice has been done, and there is no problem for the State to "solve."

This right used to be called "freedom of association," a corollary of the constitutional right to free assembly. It has mysteriously vanished from constitutional law practice and pedagogy.
  
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #5 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:11pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:00pm:
I don't know why no one is answering this very intelligent and thought provoking post.


Probably because there is no reason to "correct" differential natural advantages or disadvantages, by his method or any other.

Quote:
So clearly people with high IQ's have a systematic advantage that should be corrected.


Per what moral principle?

Quote:
Unless one is a g-ist* who believes that people with high IQ's somehow "deserve" to succeed more than other people.


I have no idea what a "g-ist" is, but no, people with high IQs don't deserve that advantage. But that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to it, and to whatever benefits it confers. No one else has any valid claim to the wealth produced by the brainy Alfie.

  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #6 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:39pm
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GEMorton wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Probably because there is no reason to "correct" differential natural advantages or disadvantages, by his method or any other.


Per what moral principle?


I have no idea what a "g-ist" is, but no, people with high IQs don't deserve that advantage. But that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to it, and to whatever benefits it confers. No one else has any valid claim to the wealth produced by the brainy Alfie.



Sure, they do if there’s a right not to be freeloaded on.

For example, imagine Allie actually can use nothing but his brain.  He’s like that History of Time guy except worse.  He’s not only paralyzed, he can only communicate through wires in his brain.  But what thought he can communicate!

He’s supported and paid by a company to just communicate his great ideas about how to be more profitable.  He has nurses and attendants, his ideas are noted and presented by staffers and he is driven to and from his huge mansion for his three-hour workday.

Shouldn’t he pay at least half of his wealth in taxes so that the children of the people who build the roads that his limo drives on can go to school and try to be as smart as he is?

If not half, then how much?

  

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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #7 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:42pm
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GEMorton wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Per what moral principle?





Per the same moral principle that allows you and Jeff to advocate taking tax money by force.
  

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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
Per the same moral principle that allows you and Jeff to advocate taking tax money by force.
I'm talking about the morality of maintaining a civilized society and mostly keeping the barbarians at bay.

If you are too, you certainly must see the need for some limited government.
  
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Re: Affirmative Action - Use Individual IQ Instead
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
I'm talking about the morality of maintaining a civilized society and mostly keeping the barbarians at bay.

If you are too, you certainly must see the need for some limited government.


Yes, limited by the willingness of people to pay for it.

Which actually could let it get quite large, like Ford Motors did. 
  

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