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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) When has Government Ever Worked? (Read 7917 times)
Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #180 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 3:44pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:20pm:
Clause 3: Fugitive Slave Clause
Main article: Fugitive Slave Clause

    No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Pierce Butler and Charles Pinckney, both from South Carolina, submitted this clause to the Constitutional Convention. James Wilson of Pennsylvania objected, stating it would require that state governments enforce slavery at taxpayers' expense. Butler withdrew the clause. However, on the next day the clause was quietly reinstated and adopted by the Convention without objection. This clause was added to the clause that provided extradition for fugitives from justice.[4]

When first adopted, this clause applied to fugitive slaves and required that they be extradited upon the claims of their masters, but it provided no means for doing so. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1793 created the mechanism for recovering a fugitive slave, overruled any state laws giving sanctuary, made it a federal crime to assist an escaped slave, and allowed slave-catchers into every U.S. state and territory. As free states sought to undermine the federal law, the even more severe Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 was enacted.


Your ignorance is understandable, given your public school education.  Your ignorance of the fact that you are ignorant is less understandable.  Stop "keyboard blurting" and read before you write.

Yes, that's the Fugitive Slave Act, not the Constitution as you suggested.
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #181 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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Sorry, you are correct.

Slavers forced terrible things to be enacted into law in the early U.S. Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

Not my fault, although I am genetically determined to be an oppressor...
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #182 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:55pm
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NPR is a good example.

Without NPR, most of America would probably be a vast wasteland of boobs and dolts.

Lucky for us all, lots of tax money has been spent over the life of NPR, so most of America now actually has some culture of some sort!!!!
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #183 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:07pm:
Sorry, you are correct.

Slavers forced terrible things to be enacted into law in the early U.S. Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

Not my fault, although I am genetically determined to be an oppressor...
Red, I'm all torn and conflicted! Crying for help here...

Do you still blame me?
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #184 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:42am
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An interesting and informative policy analysis from Cato outlining a better approach to alleviating poverty than wealth transfers-

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/government-cost-living-income-...

Basically, governments should stop making things more expensive to produce and buy.
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #185 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:05am
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:20pm:
Your ignorance is understandable, given your public school education.  Your ignorance of the fact that you are ignorant is less understandable.  Stop "keyboard blurting" and read before you write.

My understanding is that Article IV Sect. 2 was intended to apply to indentured servants and apprentices bound to service, but not to people owned as slaves. Quite possibly, the slavers were being clever in trying to gain more Constitutional protection for their evil institution.

As was the original inclusion of the mention of slaves in the Constitution, the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 was a compromise that it was hoped would keep the nation together and avoid a war over slavery.

"Bound to service" has a different meaning from "owned as property".

The Fugitive Slave Law used the language of the Constitution that applied to indentured servants and applied it to slaves so that the law would have a color of legitimacy in forcing free people in free states to act as slave catchers for the slavers.

As I said, not the finest hour of Congress or the American people. The vote for it in Congress was nearly unanimous. I imagine that Congressmen in free states were partly reacting to the general desire of their constituencies to not have too many free Negros among them... It was possible to hate slavery and fight against it while also being prejudiced enough to not want free black people in your society. Tribalism is not a new thing, it's very ancient.

Some people advocated freeing the slaves and sending them back to Africa or to some Caribbean island...
  

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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #186 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:06am
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[quote author=524C414042505C250 link=1536161098/185#185 date=1538913907]
Duplicate post, sorry.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #187 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 1:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:09am:
Oh. Theft is wrong. We agree.

Does that mean you think local property taxes to fund schools are OK?


Of course I think taxing me to fund schools is okay. I don't give a shit what other people do. I only care what I do.

Last I checked, however, this was about what's right and not about what I think.

I don't (and in fact I'm incapable) of truly thinking anything about what's right and wrong because I have no mirror neurons.

I can, however, follow laws/rules, and recognise when things are unfair or inconsistent.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #188 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 2:54pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
Last I checked, however, this was about what's right and not about what I think.

Trust me on this then, funding local schools with local property taxes is the right thing to do. So is funding the local police and courts and jail with local property taxes.

One thing that makes it right is that it gives local people control over their schools and courts and police.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: When has Government Ever Worked?
Reply #189 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:25pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Trust me on this then, funding local schools with local property taxes is the right thing to do.


I have been, this whole time.

I have been asking why then, is it not okay, for local communities to decide to financially rape the taxpayer for other things, like welfare.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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