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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary? (Read 610 times)
Jeff
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #30 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 1:52pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 1:12pm:
So your idea is that by limiting the role of the federal government to what the constitution explicitly mandates it to do, taxes would be indirectly limited also?


No, there would just be a need for much less revenue.

Taxes will be limited by adhering to the Constitutional limits on taxation.
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #31 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 1:57pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 1:12pm:
I think that would be much better than your suggestion I placed in bold.  That idea would make imported goods far more expensive while at the same time discouraging all U.S. manufacturing.  The only beneficiaries of such a plan would be sellers who specialize in second hand goods. 
Raising the cost of all imports by 5% doesn't make anything "far more expensive". Maybe if you're buying a million dollar Ferrari. That's fine.

I remember when you were calling for a VAT, the "One Tax".

That would indeed make everything far more expensive.

Anyway, I just guessed and made up numbers. I don't know that $900 billion would be needed, or if a 5% uniform tax on all imports would be right either.
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #32 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 2:03pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 1:12pm:
But, the main point is that you say, no - there is no limit to the amount of tax any individual is morally obligated to pay so long as the tax is legal.   So long as they don't bankrupt enough people that the people are likely to take up arms, there is no moral limit?

 
I don't understand what you mean by a "moral" limit on taxation. If you know there is one, you must also know how much it is...

I understand that you believe all taxes are theft and therefore any amount of tax is immoral because it's stealing. If it's all immoral, how can there be a moral limit to an immoral action?


  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #33 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 3:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
I don't understand what you mean by a "moral" limit on taxation. If you know there is one, you must also know how much it is...

I understand that you believe all taxes are theft and therefore any amount of tax is immoral because it's stealing. If it's all immoral, how can there be a moral limit to an immoral action?




Right.  My limit is zero. 

But for people who do believe that theft can be moral, I want to know whether you mean unlimited theft, or if the theft has an upper limit after which it becomes immoral.

I'm guessing that it's entirely situational ethics,  like everything else with you.  Like if there was a war, you'd say that the government can take up to one hundred percent of a person's wealth because after all, we have to keep the world safe from the British the French the German Imperialists the Nazis the Soviets the ChiComs the Viet Cong Saddam the Caliphaters. 

So, in peacetime (which is rare for the U.S.) you still have no upper limit?  Everyone is liable to be taxed as long as he has a penny in his pocket or a Federal Reserve Note in his bank account?

  

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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #34 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 5:05pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 3:56pm:
Right.  My limit is zero. 


Try not to keep telling me the same things over and over. Thanks.

I would prefer that you convince me that having no government at all anywhere in America will be a good workable idea.

So far you have said only that "people will donate or hire their own "security" forces."

What we should do is both present our differing ideas and plans to the Constitutional Convention, where they will be studied and debated in public, and we'll be able to find out what the convention delegates think and recommend.

What a great idea!
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #35 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 5:12pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 3:56pm:
So, in peacetime (which is rare for the U.S.) you still have no upper limit?
I've not been granted the power to tax anyone or anything at any rate or amount.

It's Congress that has that power, which currently has no effective limits because the Constitutional limits have been interpreted out of existence, even though they are still plainly there in the Constitution.

If I understand you, you want the Constitution to be amended so as to put upper limits on all taxes.

I'll assume you want a zero percent upper limit on all sorts of taxes on whatever, because that's what you keep telling me over and over.

You get boring.

Tell me about what you think will happen when the power to tax is removed, that interests me. Thanks.
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #36 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 8:04pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 5:05pm:
Try not to keep telling me the same things over and over. Thanks.

I would prefer that you convince me that having no government at all anywhere in America will be a good workable idea.

So far you have said only that "people will donate or hire their own "security" forces."

What we should do is both present our differing ideas and plans to the Constitutional Convention, where they will be studied and debated in public, and we'll be able to find out what the convention delegates think and recommend.

What a great idea!


Yeah, the first constitution worked out so well . . .


  

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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #37 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:37am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 8:04pm:
Yeah, the first constitution worked out so well . . .


It worked very well until "progressives" fundamentally altered it by interpretation.

Through the magic of hindsight, it is now known quite clearly what steps must be taken to not only restore, but improve the Constitution.

That's a much better idea than simply demanding the end of government in America, which is essentially what you are doing.

Here's a link to some pertinent thoughts on the real meaning of the Constitution-

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/10/23/constitutional-right-to-home-school?utm_med...
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #38 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:12am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:37am:
It worked very well until "progressives" fundamentally altered it by interpretation.

Through the magic of hindsight, it is now known quite clearly what steps must be taken to not only restore, but improve the Constitution.

That's a much better idea than simply demanding the end of government in America, which is essentially what you are doing.

Here's a link to some pertinent thoughts on the real meaning of the Constitution-

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/10/23/constitutional-right-to-home-school?utm_med...


You're sounding like a broken record, Jeff.

When are you going to explain how people get the right to empower government to tax?  Is there a natural right to take other people's stuff or does being part of a majority endow that right?

Also, do I take it you agree with my assessment that you think a tax of ninety-nine percent might be a bad policy but not at all an immoral one?

  

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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #39 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:56am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:12am:
You're sounding like a broken record, Jeff.

When are you going to explain how people get the right to empower government to tax?  Is there a natural right to take other people's stuff or does being part of a majority endow that right?

Also, do I take it you agree with my assessment that you think a tax of ninety-nine percent might be a bad policy but not at all an immoral one?

What do you think will happen in America with no governments?
  
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