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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary? (Read 612 times)
Snarky Sack
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #40 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 3:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:56am:
What do you think will happen in America with no governments? government supported voluntarily?


I think government will have to be far smaller and much more efficient.  No military parades, no foreign excursions, no "Space Force" to fight invaders from Proxima-B.

Just services so good that people will be glad to pay for them.  If Zuckerberg can do it, so can the government.

How do the people get the right to empower government to take taxes by force?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #41 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:10pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 3:33pm:
I think government will have to be far smaller...
Yes, all the evidence says it will be non-existent. Cry

Your pipe dream doesn't justify what you constantly say about limited constitutional government, which is that it's immoral and illegitimate because you don't consent to it.

There have always been people like you, and just because there are doesn't mean the rest of us can't form governments to help preserve human civilization and the rights of mankind.

Edit: If 49% of the people in America donate enough money to support the federal government, and that federal government decides to draft you, is that immoral?

What about if that same government, supported by donations from 49% of the American people decides to tax your wages as income? Would that make it moral, because the government is supported by donations?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #42 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:25pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:10pm:
Yes, all the evidence says it will be non-existent. Cry

Your pipe dream doesn't justify what you constantly say about limited constitutional government, which is that it's immoral and illegitimate because you don't consent to it.

There have always been people like you, and just because there are doesn't mean the rest of us can't form governments to help preserve human civilization and the rights of mankind.

Edit: If 49% of the people in America donate enough money to support the federal government, and that federal government decides to draft you, is that immoral?


Immoral and unconstitutional according to the involuntary servitude clause.

Unless you can tell me how the 49% derived the right to force me into service.

Quote:
I
What about if that same government, supported by donations from 49% of the American people decides to tax your wages as income? Would that make it moral, because the government is supported by donations?


No, stealing is still wrong even if people voluntarily hired the theives.

Because again:  they had no right to steal that they could use to empower government to steal.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #43 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 6:51pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:25pm:
Unless you can tell me how the 49% derived the right to force me into service.



The voluntarily funded government claimed the power to draft you into the army.

You have to keep a close eye on governments, even if they are voluntarily funded... Maybe especially if they are funded by a rich minority.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #44 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 6:54pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:25pm:
No, stealing is still wrong even if people voluntarily hired the theives.


Anyway, the government, being voluntarily funded, would be moral, right?

If they decide to tax you, what are you going to say?

Scale it down a bit... Private police come and arrest you for not paying taxes to the local warlord... Because they are private police, they are moral, right?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #45 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 6:51pm:
The voluntarily funded government claimed the power to draft you into the army.

You have to keep a close eye on governments, even if they are voluntarily funded... Maybe especially if they are funded by a rich minority.


They don't have that right, whether they claim the power or not.

Yes, the scenario of some fantastically wealthy minority funding a government that would launch wars against imagined enemies using  slaves as soldiers is possible in the sense that, "anything is possible." 

I'm trying to imagine how that rich minority would profit from a war when no taxes can be collected to fight it, but I'm sure you'll spell it out for me and I'll realize how obvious it is.

On the more realistic hand, the scenario in which taxpayers are fleeced to that wealthy arms merchants can convince the government to send slave soldiers to fight imagined enemies to the enrichment of no one except the arms dealers and the government officials who accept their bribes is not only realistic, it is the actual history of the United States during the 20th Century.

Yet another example of your arguing against libertarianism, by citing a possible consequence that already happens now under statism.


  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #46 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Anyway, the government, being voluntarily funded, would be moral, right?

If they decide to tax you, what are you going to say?

Scale it down a bit... Private police come and arrest you for not paying taxes to the local warlord... Because they are private police, they are moral, right?


No, the fact that government is voluntarily funded makes it far less likely that they will violate other rights.  But it doesn't make every thing they do then moral.

This is the part you may never accept:  Actions that are immoral if done by individuals or groups do not become magically moral when done by governments, no matter how a government is funded or selected.

If it is wrong for random strangers to rob me for their own benefit, it doesn't become right when there are enough of them to vote in a government.

  

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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #47 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:19am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:35pm:
They don't have that right, whether they claim the power or not.


I was just pointing out that your idea of voluntarily funded government is not only unlikely to solve any problems, but in fact is likely to cause worse problems.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #48 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:22am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:47pm:
No, the fact that government is voluntarily funded makes it far less likely that they will violate other rights.
Why? You've created a government through voluntary donations. The problem of how to control that government remains. If you stop donating, what will prevent the government you've created voluntarily and funded with donations from starting to tax you?
  
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Re: Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?
Reply #49 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:04am
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Regarding my two previous replies to topic "Why is the Question, “Should Taxes be Limited?” So Scary?", I apologize for not using Question Mark Message Icon and Lamp Message Icon for my first reply and second reply respectively of said topic.

SkyChief, when I replied "Department of Caring" I meant "Department of Caring & Honesty & Intellectualisms & Joyfillednesses & Non-manipulativensses"; thus the government doesn't erroneously or obsessively care about people.

16, a 50% obligatory investment of money from broadcasting of detrimental immoral TV shows such as:

Beavis and Butt-Head

and

The Simpsons.
  
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