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Jeff
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #80 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
Sure, it's gotten worse over time, but Americans have been heavily taxed since 1913.

Tell us about it. What were the rates in 1913 and what did they apply to.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #81 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:07pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:39pm:
Tell us about it. What were the rates in 1913 and what did they apply to.

In 1913, the top tax bracket was 7% on all incomes over $500k.

But my point is, the rate of income tax is irrelevant - tax on any income is wrong.

"We believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of all taxation."
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #82 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:39am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
In 1913, the top tax bracket was 7% on all incomes over $500k.

But my point is, the rate of income tax is irrelevant - tax on any income is wrong.

"We believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of all taxation."
You said "heavily taxed".

$500,000 in 1913 is the equivalent of $12,734,000 today.

That's taxable income Chief, not gross receipts. Not many Americans then or now had that much taxable income, and taking 7% of it just isn't something that allows you to say that Americans have been heavily taxed since 1913.

Here's some brand new information on heavy taxation today-

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/feds-collect-record-indiv...

If you read the article, you'll notice that collections from individuals are up, and collections from corporations are down...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #83 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:39am:
You said "heavily taxed".

Indeed I did.

I used the 1912 tax rate for comparison.   

In 1912, the Income Tax rate was 0%.

So, in 1913, when it went from 0% to 7%, that's a huge increase.

Americans seriously got hoodwinked by the federal government.  The slippery slope was established, and now Americans are forced to hand over a third of their wages and salaries to the government.

Since there are no limits on the Income Tax Rates, whats to stop government from demanding 50% of our salaries?   How about 60%??

Absolutely nothing.  If that doesn't worry you, it should.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #84 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:04pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:56pm:
Indeed I did.

I used the 1912 tax rate for comparison.   

In 1912, the Income Tax rate was 0%.

So, in 1913, when it went from 0% to 7%, that's a huge increase.
How much did total revenue increase due to that 7% tax on taxable income above $500,000; what was the percentage of that increase? Minuscule I'll bet.

Edit: Here's a link to a chart that shows that revenue stayed flat or went down from 1912 to 1913. (Scroll down about halfway...)

http://metrocosm.com/history-of-us-taxes/
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #85 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:09pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:56pm:
Americans seriously got hoodwinked by the federal government.  The slippery slope was established, and now Americans are forced to hand over a third of their wages and salaries to the government.

Since there are no limits on the Income Tax Rates, whats to stop government from demanding 50% of our salaries?   How about 60%??

Absolutely nothing.  If that doesn't worry you, it should.
This is all correct except for the part about percentages of our wages and salaries. Since the taxation of wages and salaries is direct, the Constitution requires that they be taxed in an apportioned fashion. That means someone with a low salary/wage will have a much higher percentage taken than will someone with a high salary/wage.

Can you see how that rule would act to keep the apportioned tax low?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #86 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 2:10pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:09pm:
This is all correct except for the part about percentages of our wages and salaries. Since the taxation of wages and salaries is direct, the Constitution requires that they be taxed in an apportioned fashion. That means someone with a low salary/wage will have a much higher percentage taken than will someone with a high salary/wage.

Can you see how that rule would act to keep the apportioned tax low?


No, it would not.

Because all the government would have to do is tax everyone seventy-five percent of their income and then give rebates to people earning under $XX,XXX per year.  By being able to control the precise amount of refund for each tax bracket, congress will have everyone totally dependent and grateful for being allowed to get back some of their own money.

The rules could easily allow earners to file exceptions from witholding equal to the amount expected to be rebated.  So lawmakers would tell their constituents that the rich will be made to pay.  They won't of course, since the rich are much smarter than lawmakers.  But lawmakers are much smarter than voters so the government will continue to grow.


Your confidence in a piece of paper being able to control gangs of men and women armed not only with guns, but with the self-righteous justification that they are acting in the best interest of the people, is  misplaced to say the least.
  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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SkyChief
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Re: What Would Jesus Steal?
Reply #87 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 4:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:04pm:
How much did total revenue increase due to that 7% tax on taxable income above $500,000; what was the percentage of that increase? Minuscule I'll bet.

And your point is?  How is this relevant to Americans getting hoodwinked with an Income Tax?

Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:04pm:
Edit: Here's a link to a chart that shows that revenue stayed flat or went down from 1912 to 1913. (Scroll down about halfway...)

http://metrocosm.com/history-of-us-taxes/

How is US revenue between 1912 and 1913 relevant to the Income Tax Rate being raised from 0% to 7% in those years? 
  
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