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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam. (Read 2802 times)
Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #220 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 2:03pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:50am:
PS:

Sorry, Jeff.  I'm smacking you around pretty hard this morning.  I'll give you some breathing room . . .

I get a laugh out of you comparing me to Stalin. Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #221 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:16am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:38am:
Jeff about as far from libertarian as Joseph Stalin.


I agree. In the Soviet Union, you could have a pet chicken.

https://www.quora.com/Was-pet-ownership-legal-in-the-Soviet-Union

To this day, in Russia, they're very permissive about what kinds of pets you can have. Many of the world's pet exotic cats reside in Russia.

Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:38am:
People like Jeff stay in the majority by avoiding any productive work that would generate enough wealth to be taxed.  Sales taxes are the only ones they typically pay, but they pay those out of welfare dollars anyway.  Whatever form of welfare Jeff has been able to "earn" by correctly filling out the paperwork is what he really means to protect with his absurd nonsense about "morally justified theft" to feed the starving kids.

I'm guessing Jeff lived off parents, then student loan and then managed to develop some sort of disability.  Maybe carpel tunnel syndrome from repeatedly typing the same phrases.


People who can game the system are uniquely attracted to the maximum freedom possible. They will use that freedom to manipulate whatever system is in place and maintain ideal, perfect freedom for themselves while manipulating the 51% into taking freedom away from others.

People who want fairness are attracted to less freedom. They are inversely proportional in practice.

If you're in the 49% for any reason (you might not be good at swaying opinions, good at picking the correct opinions, or you might just not be cool with the cognitive dissonance necessary to hold all the right opinions) the more freedom the 51% has, the more freedom your oppressors have.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #222 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 8:13am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:16am:
People who can game the system...
Are correctly called cronies.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #223 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 8:15am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:16am:
People who want fairness are attracted to less freedom.
Can you give an example?

This seems to be garbled nonsense to me, that's why I ask.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #224 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:16am:
I agree. In the Soviet Union, you could have a pet chicken.

https://www.quora.com/Was-pet-ownership-legal-in-the-Soviet-Union

To this day, in Russia, they're very permissive about what kinds of pets you can have. Many of the world's pet exotic cats reside in Russia.


Right, and in North Korea, you are allowed to smoke weed.  That’s the kind of freedom some on this board advocate:  the government allows us to do things like drink bourbon, smoke weed and keep a significant fraction of our money.

If something new comes along, like robot prostitutes, we can’t just start making money and growing the economy.  That would be anarchy!  We have to wait for laws to be passed allowing us to do that.

Quote:
People who can game the system are uniquely attracted to the maximum freedom possible. They will use that freedom to manipulate whatever system is in place and maintain ideal, perfect freedom for themselves while manipulating the 51% into taking freedom away from others.

People who want fairness are attracted to less freedom. They are inversely proportional in practice.


That last is very well put and easy to understand, thanks!

Those who want fairness dictates by government were the kind of kids who thought it was unfair that their older brother mowed lawns and had money for candy so they expected mom to buy them candy also.  Now, as grownups, they still want government to make sure that they get free stuff like education since it wouldn’t be “fair” if some people got it and some people didn’t. 

That kind of “fairness” is the opposite of freedom.


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #225 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
That last is very well put and easy to understand, thanks!

Those who want fairness dictates by government were the kind of kids who thought it was unfair that their older brother mowed lawns and had money for candy so they expected mom to buy them candy also.  Now, as grownups, they still want government to make sure that they get free stuff like education since it wouldn’t be “fair” if some people got it and some people didn’t. 

That kind of “fairness” is the opposite of freedom.


Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Knowing the lizard, I should have realized it was talking about forcing other individuals to be fair to it...

What I was thinking about was government treating everyone fairly, by which I mean equally under the law.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #226 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:30pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
Right, and in North Korea, you are allowed to smoke weed.  That’s the kind of freedom some on this board advocate:  the government allows us to do things like drink bourbon, smoke weed and keep a significant fraction of our money.

If something new comes along, like robot prostitutes, we can’t just start making money and growing the economy.  That would be anarchy!  We have to wait for laws to be passed allowing us to do that.



We agree that a presumption of general liberty is the basis of any moral system of government, that it is the government that needs our permission (in writing) before it can act, while we can do anything provided we don't violate the equal rights of others.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #227 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:30pm:
We agree that a presumption of general liberty is the basis of any moral system of government, that it is the government that needs our permission (in writing) before it can act, while we can do anything provided we don't violate the equal rights of others.


So no government has the power to ban robot prostitutes?  Or can you show me where that power has been granted in writing?
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #228 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:46pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
So no government has the power to ban robot prostitutes?  Or can you show me where that power has been granted in writing?
State and local governments, which are supposedly under the control of state and local people, have police powers...

Before I waste my time going further, do you understand police powers and know why people grant them to governments?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #229 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:58pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
Right, and in North Korea, you are allowed to smoke weed.  That’s the kind of freedom some on this board advocate:  the government allows us to do things like drink bourbon, smoke weed and keep a significant fraction of our money.


Well, when those freedoms benefit them. If those freedoms do not benefit them, they will define risk as aggression and disallow those acts on the basis of the NAP. Drunk humans are a bigger risk to human life than pet chickens, btw. (That would be even if we counted every salmonella death as attributable to pet chickens and just for the Hell of it, multiplied them by 100.)

Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
If something new comes along, like robot prostitutes, we can’t just start making money and growing the economy.  That would be anarchy!  We have to wait for laws to be passed allowing us to do that.


I've personally said have your robot brothel, but understand that my position is derived from my desire for less freedom.

If I were a true libertarian, I would concoct some convoluted string of philosophy and reinterpret the NAP six ways a sentence for twelve sentences to get to the conclusion that your brothel aggresses against me, so you can't have it. (I already said how I would do this: Devaluation of property = damage to property.)

But since I hate freedom, have your brothel. I don't think I should have the freedom to take away your brothel. I want less freedom, not more.

Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
That last is very well put and easy to understand, thanks!

Those who want fairness dictates by government were the kind of kids who thought it was unfair that their older brother mowed lawns and had money for candy so they expected mom to buy them candy also.  Now, as grownups, they still want government to make sure that they get free stuff like education since it wouldn’t be “fair” if some people got it and some people didn’t. 

That kind of “fairness” is the opposite of freedom.


What about the kind of fairness where if someone can take away my shit because it poses a .013% risk to them, then I can take their shit if I can prove it poses a ≥ .013% risk to me?

Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:30pm:
We agree that a presumption of general liberty is the basis of any moral system of government, that it is the government that needs our permission (in writing) before it can act, while we can do anything provided we don't violate the equal rights of others.


Unless the thing I'm doing is owning a chicken. Pretty much everyone on this forum has agreed that it violates rights because it is a risk to others.

And when I suggest that the principle risk = rights violation be applied elsewhere, you go back to absolute rights.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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