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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam. (Read 2990 times)
Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #230 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:54am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
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So no government has the power to ban robot prostitutes?  Or can you show me where that power has been granted in writing?


Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
State and local governments, which are supposedly under the control of state and local people, have police powers...

Before I waste my time going further, do you understand police powers and know why people grant them to governments?


Yes, people grant the government the power to protect them from aggression based on the people's existing right to protect themselves from aggression.  Just like I have a right to grant my lawn boy the power to cut my grass, but not to cut my neighbor's grass because I think he lets it grow to long.

What does that have to do with a written grant of power to ban robot prostitutes?

  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #231 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:59am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:58pm:
Well, when those freedoms benefit them. If those freedoms do not benefit them, they will define risk as aggression and disallow those acts on the basis of the NAP. Drunk humans are a bigger risk to human life than pet chickens, btw. (That would be even if we counted every salmonella death as attributable to pet chickens and just for the Hell of it, multiplied them by 100.)


I've personally said have your robot brothel, but understand that my position is derived from my desire for less freedom.

If I were a true libertarian, I would concoct some convoluted string of philosophy and reinterpret the NAP six ways a sentence for twelve sentences to get to the conclusion that your brothel aggresses against me, so you can't have it. (I already said how I would do this: Devaluation of property = damage to property.)

But since I hate freedom, have your brothel. I don't think I should have the freedom to take away your brothel. I want less freedom, not more.


What about the kind of fairness where if someone can take away my shit because it poses a .013% risk to them, then I can take their shit if I can prove it poses a ≥ .013% risk to me?



Quest for that kind of "freedom" is exactly why we have the nanny state we have now. People in the 80's used to say that it is OK to ban smoking or otherwise make it hard for people to smoke.  The rationale was that "we all" pay for health insurance and smokers drive the rates up so "we all" should have a say in whether other people smoke.

I feared that with Obamacare that argument would have even more sway, but I rarely hear that argument anymore.  I think that is because post 9/11, nearly everyone has given up on the question of whether government should regulate personal choices.  It's assumed that government will run our lives so the thing to do is to lobby for government regulating personal choices in the way that favors us instead of other people.

That's why you have statists who want the government to "allow" us more freedom and they think that makes them libertarian.


  

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lksalksa123
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #232 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 11:48am
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If my son were to shoplift something, the ideal situation for be for him to be tased, thereby learning a valuable lesson.  Tasers are rarely fatal and avoid situations where cops have to slam someone down and possibly hurt both parties.  Keep in mind that the 11-year-old girl can easily be hurt on accident.  Also, theft is a serious offense; in much of the Middle East, you are killed or your hands are cut off for theft.  I disagree with these punishments, yet in comparison, tasing someone doesn’t seem quite as harsh.  Now, if the cop had shot her with a gun, then we would be having a different conversation.  Is a taser really that sever of a punishment?  She may think twice before stealing again and then running from the police.  We the people should not forget that, though an 11-year-old person is far from being fully developed cognitively, they are fully functioning human beings able to make positive and/or negative decisions.  Let’s reinforce good behaviors while punishing bad ones appropriately before they grow up to be adults and ruin their good standing as a law abiding citizen.  Real quick though, the article says that the event occurred while the officers body camera was off.  This is unacceptable and should not occur.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #233 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 12:26pm
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lksalksa123 wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 11:48am:
  Is a taser really that sever of a punishment? 

A Taser is a non-lethal means of temporarily incapacitating someone who is combative or a threat to others.

Using a Taser as a method of punishment is wrong.

It's barbaric.   Especially on a child.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #234 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:25pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:54am:
Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:50pm:


Yes, people grant the government the power to protect them from aggression based on the people's existing right to protect themselves from aggression.  Just like I have a right to grant my lawn boy the power to cut my grass, but not to cut my neighbor's grass because I think he lets it grow to long.

What does that have to do with a written grant of power to ban robot prostitutes?

When you grant police powers to a representative government, you can expect that some things will be banned for reasons of "community standards".

The only way I know to minimize that sort of thing is to tightly constrain what your local government can make illegal, and try hard to elect liberal minded people to the government.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #235 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:26pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 12:26pm:
A Taser is a non-lethal means of temporarily incapacitating someone who is combative or a threat to others.


Usually non-lethal.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #236 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 6:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
Usually non-lethal.

Yes, fatalities have occurred. 

All the more reason NOT to use a Taser as a form of punishment.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #237 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 6:58pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Yes, fatalities have occurred. 

All the more reason NOT to use a Taser as a form of punishment.
I'm not any kind of expert about tasers, but I think how you use them has something to do with them possibly being lethal ...

I'd say, just like guns, they are potentially lethal.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #238 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 7:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
I'm not any kind of expert about tasers, but I think how you use them has something to do with them possibly being lethal ...

I'd say, just like guns, they are potentially lethal.

I dont know a whole lot about them either, but I know that the Taser operator can control the duration of the shock. 

It can be a short burst or agonizingly long.    Which is a little disturbing, actually.    Undecided
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #239 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 8:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:30pm:
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We agree that a presumption of general liberty is the basis of any moral system of government, that it is the government that needs our permission (in writing) before it can act, while we can do anything provided we don't violate the equal rights of others.


Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
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So no government has the power to ban robot prostitutes?  Or can you show me where that power has been granted in writing?


Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Quote:
State and local governments, which are supposedly under the control of state and local people, have police powers...

Before I waste my time going further, do you understand police powers and know why people grant them to governments?


Snarky Sack wrote yesterday at 11:54am:
Quote:
Yes, people grant the government the power to protect them from aggression based on the people's existing right to protect themselves from aggression.  Just like I have a right to grant my lawn boy the power to cut my grass, but not to cut my neighbor's grass because I think he lets it grow to long.

What does that have to do with a written grant of power to ban robot prostitutes?



Jeff wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
When you grant police powers to a representative government, you can expect that some things will be banned for reasons of "community standards".

The only way I know to minimize that sort of thing is to tightly constrain what your local government can make illegal, and try hard to elect liberal minded people to the government.


So what does that have to do with whether a government has been given permission in writing to ban robot prostitutes?

Did you lose track of the conversation, or are you trying to dodge yet another question?
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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