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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam. (Read 2370 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #300 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 11:01am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 7:09am:
Is infinite land available?


I asked you a question. Rather than answer, you choose to ridicule another post I made because you didn't get the point of it.

The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
Sure. Let's say they're not on very good terms and they hire a representative to decide their rules for them.

The representative promptly decides that person A may kill person B.

Does that make it right?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #301 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 12:35pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
Sure. Let's say they're not on very good terms and they hire a representative to decide their rules for them.

The representative promptly decides that person A may kill person B.

Does that make it right?


Two parties hire an arbitrator and sign an agreement to abide by his decision?

That's not a government...

Good luck with telling the police you killed someone because an arbitrator said you could. Cheesy
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #302 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 1:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
If two people decide to create a government and have it serve them, I don't see any philosophical reason to prevent them, but it seems pretty silly. Smiley

But anyway, the theory is, taxation is only legitimate if the expenditure of the tax serves the entire community, and that everyone in the community should contribute at least a small amount in some way. (Edit: If you live in the community and rent your home, you pay property taxes through your rent.)

That's part of what's wrong with the five people in the elevator. Three or four of them decide to distribute one person's M&Ms when none of the rest of them are contributing anything.


Public schools are filled with kids whose parents pay nothing in taxes because they are on welfare.  Those children are almost always the most difficult to work with and take up the most resources.  The kids of the paying parents have to take a back seat to those with "learning disabilities" and "behavioral issues."

There is no moral difference between three people ganging up on one to take his M&M's for the people in the elevator and three hundred thousand people forcing two hundred thousand to pay for the education of children in the community. 

This only difference is in scale, not principle.


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #303 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:47pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 1:40pm:
Public schools are filled with kids whose parents pay nothing in taxes because they are on welfare.  Those children are almost always the most difficult to work with and take up the most resources.  The kids of the paying parents have to take a back seat to those with "learning disabilities" and "behavioral issues."


Right. Leave them in illiterate and useless so they will join gangs or go on welfare. Is that your plan?

Anyway, before "progressive" educational theorists decided to "mainstream" slow learners, public schools had special classes for them, which is the best solution I know of, and before "progressive" child raising theorists decided that discipline harms children, children with problems disciplining themselves were disciplined in order to help teach them self discipline. That's a good idea too.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #304 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 1:40pm:
There is no moral difference between three people ganging up on one to take his M&M's for the people in the elevator and three hundred thousand people forcing two hundred thousand to pay for the education of children in the community. 

This only difference is in scale, not principle.


The purposes are quite different, as are the means. One is legal taxation for the purpose of offering an opportunity for every child to get an education, the other is simply theft for the purpose of re-distribution. I see a clear moral difference.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #305 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 9:16pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:47pm:
Right. Leave them in illiterate and useless so they will join gangs or go on welfare. Is that your plan?


I proved to you, mathematically, that forcing universal education down everyone's throat does not help these people get jobs.

All it does is train the businesses' applicants for them at my expense.

Again, I don't think you understand that education is a purely competitive advantage.

It does exactly zero when given to everyone. When you plus Smarty Sally +5 and Bumbling Billy +5, Sally is still greater than Billy, and by exactly the same amount. The business hires the same eventual applicant. He just got trained on my dime.

Again, Jeff, I agree with you that I should be forced to pay for schools. You were the one who said the benefit taxed for needs to benefit everyone, and schools fail at that. They actively hurt some people - the ones who are actually trying to learn. Is that the point? To help some and hurt others? If so I agree with it, you just have to be straight with me.

I'm holding your verbal spewage to your own standards, not mine.

Hurry up and adjust your positions to something consistent so I can agree with them.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #306 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 9:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
If two people decide to create a government and have it serve them, I don't see any philosophical reason to prevent them,


Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 12:35pm:
Two parties hire an arbitrator and sign an agreement to abide by his decision?

That's not a government...

Good luck with telling the police you killed someone because an arbitrator said you could. Cheesy


You just go back to this ridicule crap instead of losing an argument. You would rather win dirty and ruin the debate and the corresponding search for truth, than lose clean.

The fact that you use these tactics is probably what Burnsy meant to exclude when he says, "intelligent posters" - I think he means people who won't do this.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #307 - Oct 22nd, 2018 at 9:05am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 9:16pm:
I proved to you, mathematically, that forcing universal education down everyone's throat does not help these people get jobs.

I'm not talking about forcing universal education on anyone, just about making sure that every child has an opportunity to get a basic education.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #308 - Oct 22nd, 2018 at 9:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 9:19pm:
You just go back to this ridicule crap instead of losing an argument.

You asked if two people could create a government.

I said it was silly.

Then you talked about two people asking a third person to arbitrate their dispute, and wondered what would happen if the arbitrator told one of the two to shoot the other, as if that silly scenario somehow was analogous to a legitimate government collecting legal taxes. It's not.

If you want to talk seriously about the apparent fact that people can and do create governments to serve them, go ahead, but try to stay out of the realm of absurdity, thanks.

BTW, if there were 4,500 people stuck on a stranded elevator, and one of them had a bag of M&Ms, there wouldn't be any sense in stealing them to redistribute to others because there wouldn't be enough to go around. Smiley


  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #309 - Oct 22nd, 2018 at 9:21am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:47pm:
Right. Leave them in illiterate and useless so they will join gangs or go on welfare. Is that your plan?

Anyway, before "progressive" educational theorists decided to "mainstream" slow learners, public schools had special classes for them, which is the best solution I know of, and before "progressive" child raising theorists decided that discipline harms children, children with problems disciplining themselves were disciplined in order to help teach them self discipline. That's a good idea too.


Of course schools are run by progressives with no strong foothold on reality.  That’s the inevitable result of funding them through taxes. 

Having people forced to pay for each of your latest ideas with no consequences when they fail isn’t a plan that will ever achieve success.  As soon as the guns got involved, education was destined to go down the toilet.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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