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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam. (Read 692 times)
GEMorton
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #60 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 6:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 3:09pm:
Right, and if the only way to stop a running shoplifter is to shoot them, is that "reasonable force"?


Yes.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #61 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:16pm
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GEMorton wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 6:39pm:
Yes.

So an officer, or security guard who had a pistol but not a taser would be justified in shooting a shoplifting child because that would be a reasonable response by a reasonable person?

You would argue that before a jury?
  
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #62 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 11:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:16pm:
So an officer, or security guard who had a pistol but not a taser would be justified in shooting a shoplifting child because that would be a reasonable response by a reasonable person?

You would argue that before a jury?


In most such cases it would not be reasonable, because there  would likely be less drastic ways to make the arrest. As for arguing it philosophically before a jury, probably not, since juries are more likely to reach decisions on emotional grounds, rather than rational ones. A competent lawyer would contrive some defense strategy with more emotional appeal.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #63 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 7:33am
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GEMorton wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
In most such cases it would not be reasonable, because there  would likely be less drastic ways to make the arrest. As for arguing it philosophically before a jury, probably not, since juries are more likely to reach decisions on emotional grounds, rather than rational ones. A competent lawyer would contrive some defense strategy with more emotional appeal.
But on a philosophical moral level, you think it would be the right thing to do?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #64 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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SnarkySack wrote yesterday at 11:24am:
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Then as a private security guard, he had no authority to transport a child or anyone else into the Kroger manager's office.


GEMorton wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 2:40pm:
Of course he does. So does any security guard, or any victim of any crime. He has all the authority he needs --- his own --- to stop the crime and deliver the perpetrator to justice.





The managers' office of your local Kroger is not a hall of justice.  There is no right under "citizen's arrest" to take anyone anywhere, except to the nearest police station.




  

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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #65 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:07pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
The managers' office of your local Kroger is not a hall of justice.  There is no right under "citizen's arrest" to take anyone anywhere, except to the nearest police station.
If you grabbed the girl who was shoplifting, and she was fighting you, kicking and screaming and trying to bite you, it might be best to put her in the closet in the manager's office until the police get there.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #66 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
If you grabbed the girl who was shoplifting, and she was fighting you, kicking and screaming and trying to bite you, it might be best to put her in the closet in the manager's office until the police get there.


I hope you're kidding.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #67 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:46pm:
I hope you're kidding.
If I was the security guard, and she was kicking and screaming and trying to bite me, and you were the Kroger Manager, I would say "Here, you take her. What happens next is above my pay level."

Then you would do as you thought best.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #68 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:46pm:
If I was the security guard, and she was kicking and screaming and trying to bite me, and you were the Kroger Manager, I would say "Here, you take her. What happens next is above my pay level."

Then you would do as you thought best.


Which would be to decide that the risk of hurting a child, being sued and having my employer sued wasn’t worth the benefit, whatever that security guard imagines it to be.

  

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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #69 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Which would be to decide that the risk of hurting a child, being sued and having my employer sued wasn’t worth the benefit, whatever that security guard imagines it to be.

So you would let her kick and bite you a few times and then let her leave with what she stole?

If you want your security guards to ignore shoplifting, you'd better make that clear to them. In writing would be best. Smiley
  
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