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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam. (Read 2424 times)
Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #70 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:01pm:
So you would let her kick and bite you a few times and then let her leave with what she stole?


I wouldn’t have touched her in the first place.  No amount of Kroger merchandise, much less an amount that can fit in a backpack, is worth the risk of injuring a child and the ramifications of that to myself and my employer.

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If you want your security guards to ignore shoplifting, you'd better make that clear to them. In writing would be best. Smiley


I have no trouble putting in writing that we don’t touch children in my place of employment.  I’d be concerned that an employee dumb enough not to know that already might not be able to read.

While we’re on the topic of using force to prevent theft, is this a good time for you to say whether you oppose the government’s use of deadly force on people who steal by not paying taxes?




  

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GEMorton
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #71 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:18pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
SnarkySack wrote yesterday at 11:24am:


The managers' office of your local Kroger is not a hall of justice.  There is no right under "citizen's arrest" to take anyone anywhere, except to the nearest police station.


The decision as to whether to call police is the manager's, not his employee's.
  
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GEMorton
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #72 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:24pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:38pm:
I wouldn’t have touched her in the first place.  No amount of Kroger merchandise, much less an amount that can fit in a backpack, is worth the risk of injuring a child and the ramifications of that to myself and my employer.


As I said, values are subjective and relative. For some, including me, upholding a moral principle is worth more than the life of any thief.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #73 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:44pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 5:38pm:
I wouldn’t have touched her in the first place.  No amount of Kroger merchandise, much less an amount that can fit in a backpack, is worth the risk of injuring a child and the ramifications of that to myself and my employer.
Ha ha.

Store managers and owners used to catch children shoplifting all the time, and they would physically restrain them for a start, then decide what to do, call the police, call their parents, or just try to put the fear of arrest into them.

There wasn't an epidemic of injured children who had been caught shoplifting.

There probably was less shoplifting.

Why have private security if your going to tell them to ignore theft?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #74 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 9:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:44pm:
Ha ha.

Store managers and owners used to catch children shoplifting all the time, and they would physically restrain them for a start, then decide what to do, call the police, call their parents, or just try to put the fear of arrest into them.

There wasn't an epidemic of injured children who had been caught shoplifting.

There probably was less shoplifting.

Why have private security if your going to tell them to ignore theft?


While we’re on the topic of using force to prevent theft, is this a good time for you to say whether you oppose the government’s use of deadly force on people who steal by not paying taxes?

  

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SkyChief
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #75 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:26pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:46pm:
I hope you're kidding.

He's not.

Jeff is living the Glory-Days when people were accountable for their actions.

Those days are past...

Jeff never got the memo...
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #76 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:07am
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GEMorton wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
As I said, values are subjective and relative. For some, including me, upholding a moral principle is worth more than the life of any thief.


Me too. But I recognise that the thief's life is not mine. It's his.

Nothing would please me more greatly than to be able to retaliate when someone harms me or steals from me.

But I must act like I'm civilised, even if, in my heart, I'm not.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #77 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:44am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:26pm:
He's not.

Jeff is living the Glory-Days when people were accountable for their actions.

Those days are past...

Jeff never got the memo...
"Progressives" have been trying to sell the idea that individuals aren't responsible for their actions for a long time, but not that many people ever bought into it in reality; in reality, they still want people who steal from them punished.

In case you haven't noticed Chief, there's a backlash against that sort of "progressive" thinking going on right now.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #78 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:31am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:44pm:
Ha ha.

Store managers and owners used to catch children shoplifting all the time, and they would physically restrain them for a start, then decide what to do, call the police, call their parents, or just try to put the fear of arrest into them.

There wasn't an epidemic of injured children who had been caught shoplifting.


Not an epidemic, but anything one human being physically conflicts with another, there's a chance of injury.  So you have to consider the circumstances.  Sure, you can restrain a child who is biting and kicking you.  But if you provoke the child to bite and kick you by  picking them up to carry them to the managers office (?), you can't claim self-defense for whatever you do next to escalate the physical conflict.

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There probably was less shoplifting.


I doubt it.  Kids are more likely to have cash these days than when I was a kid.  Lack of cash is what leads to shoplifting.  Kids see stuff on shelves and the get the idea to just take it.  Even the most well-parented kids sometimes are tempted.  Also, peer pressure.  In my day, if they got caught, they would maybe run away, but they wouldn't just walk away.  But that was because they feared their parents.  These days, many welfare parents encourage this kind of thing because, welfare "ain't enough."

It's that gimmeminetakefromthem tax-and-spend mentality that makes those kids feel entitled  instead of embarrassed when then get caught.  You fully support  having my money stolen from me to give them more money for volleyball team jerseys or and transgender sensitivity classes so why shouldn't they feel entitled to a backpack full of goodies?

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Why have private security if your going to tell them to ignore theft?


If it's an adult, I have no problem with stopping thieves as long as they are still on property.  If it's a kid, I'm not stupid enough to use force on them.  Neither are Kroger managers, that's why they hire police officers. 

The corporation, the managers and the police officers all know that it's a game.  The officer obeys the manager because that's his boss at that time.  But if it comes down to a lawsuit, the manager is going to claim he never would have told an officer to tase a child.  The officer will be left swinging in the breeze, but taking that chance is why he gets paid $30 per hour.

There's no perfect world in which every thief gets caught and punished and therefore thievery drops off to nothing.  Never has happened and never will.  Your imagined perfect world is not the real world, so libertarianism doesn't have to prove to be as perfect as your imaginary world in order to be a better system than we have now.

Since we're talking about using force to stop thievery, surely this is a perfect time for you to say whether you agree with government using deadly force to stop the "thievery" of not paying taxes.

Go ahead . . .

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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SkyChief
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Re: Cop Tases Eleven Year Old Shoplifter. NOT Caught on Body Cam.
Reply #79 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:10am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:44am:
"Progressives" have been trying to sell the idea that individuals aren't responsible for their actions for a long time, but not that many people ever bought into it in reality; in reality, they still want people who steal from them punished.

In case you haven't noticed Chief, there's a backlash against that sort of "progressive" thinking going on right now.

I meant that the days of institutionalized corporal punishment are over.  It used to be perfectly acceptible for a phys ed teacher to swat a student`s butt with a wooden paddle.

If that were done today, the phys ed teacher would be arrested for assault/battery, and the school would be put in lockdown.  There would be lots of fire trucks and news helicopters called to the scene. 

If a child is caught shoplifting, strict protocols must be followed when apprehending the child.   Lawsuits will happen if they aren't.
  
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