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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #20 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Didn't this start out with the value of a beloved pet?


Yes, which is why I asked if your final answer on the aggressor was the lying neighbour or the police.

Not who did something wrong - the aggressor, whose actions should be redressed with law.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #21 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 7:42am:
Speaking of public schools, check this out-

http://www.speroforum.com/a/XCIOVCGJBQ49/83979-How-a-school-district-got-a-20-mi...

The education budget provides $12,000/student, but it looks like not much of it goes to actually teaching students.


Does the school district's use of the funds in that way violate anyone's rights?


  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #22 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Does the school district's use of the funds in that way violate anyone's rights?


Why ask, since you think taxation for education violates rights?

Is it right to tax people for one purpose and use the money for something else? No.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #23 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 2:44pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
Yes, which is why I asked if your final answer on the aggressor was the lying neighbour or the police.

Not who did something wrong - the aggressor, whose actions should be redressed with law.
Legal wrongs are torts.

It's hard to talk to you when you insist on calling every tort or illegal act "aggression".

Yes, it's possible to call petty theft "aggression", but when rape and assault and battery and murder are also "aggression", the waters seem a little muddy.

I stand by what I said. The neighbor was wrong to lie, the police were wrong to take the fox without any evidence of anyone being bitten, and the animal control officers were wrong to kill the fox.

Because of "qualified immunity" the neighbor is probably the only one you can sue.
  
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #24 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:51pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 9th, 2018 at 12:39am:
Challenge: Find who the aggressor is in this scenario.



So this couple lives in an area where owning a domestic fox is legal. They never let it out of the house.

After the couple gets threats, which threaten to report the fox as a dangerous animal, the police get an anonymous bite report, which is suspect because the fox never left the house.

The police remove the fox from the house and hand it over to animal control, who reports that the fox is friendly and wags its tail whenever they feed it.

Animal control assures the couple they are not going to kill the fox. They say he's being held temporarily to screen for diseases.

The police show up at the couple's house and tell them the fox has been killed. He was euthanised without warning and without proper screening.

Who is the aggressor here?

the cops and nabors
  
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #25 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:58pm
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thermf5 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:51pm:
the cops and nabors
What do the animal control officers who killed it say?

"Just following Department Policy"?
  
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #26 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 10:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Legal wrongs are torts.

It's hard to talk to you when you insist on calling every tort or illegal act "aggression".


If it's not aggression, answer none. Is that your final answer? Only civil wrongs occurred? No aggression according to the NAP?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #27 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 6:56am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 10:33pm:
If it's not aggression, answer none. Is that your final answer? Only civil wrongs occurred? No aggression according to the NAP?
The NAP is a principle that says it's wrong to initiate aggression. I agree that it's wrong to cause harm to someone's person or property or reputation by lying. The lying neighbor initiated the wrong that was done to the fox and it's owner. The police that took the fox without probable cause or reasonable cause did not initiate any aggression, they simply failed to verify the truth of the allegation, but they also did wrong by doing that, as did the animal control officers that killed the fox without good reason.

All of them committed legal wrongs. It's not really important to me that the NAP be called on  in every human action to determine if aggression has been initiated or not. The basic principle of the NAP was a part of our law long before the NAP was formulated.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #28 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:20pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 6:56am:
The police that took the fox without probable cause or reasonable cause did not initiate any aggression,


You heard it here first, folks.

Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 6:56am:
All of them committed legal wrongs. It's not really important to me that the NAP be called onĀ  in every human action to determine if aggression has been initiated or not. The basic principle of the NAP was a part of our law long before the NAP was formulated.


So only civil wrongs occurred? No crimes*?

*or acts that should be crimes
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #29 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:36pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:20pm:
You heard it here first, folks.


So only civil wrongs occurred? No crimes*?

*or acts that should be crimes
Torts are crimes lizard, they are crimes that have not been made a part of the criminal code.

You can argue that the lie about your fox biting someone caused your fox to be stolen from you by the police and that therefore the liar and the police are both thieves. Give it a try. Other sorts of lies that cause harm to people by taking their property are crimes, for instance fraud.

The liar defrauded you out of your pet fox... Ask a lawyer, I'm not sure that would fly...
  
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