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Snarky Sack
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #200 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 6:27pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
You hate my answers and try to distort them when you don't ignore them outright. You are also stepping up your frequency of lying directly about what I said.

Edit: When are rights absolute?


By definition always.  If they are not absolute, they are not rights.  When one right appears to conflict with another, you are mistaken about one of them being rights.

There is no conflict between the right of an individual to keep his money and the right of the community to take his money for a public school.  That's because there is no right of the community to take his money for a public school.  There is only the power to do it which the majority can pass on to the government.

 
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #201 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:29am:
You have a right to own either or both, but the right is not absolute in either case. The rights of others must be considered.

For example, if you use your rightfully owned gun to murder people, your right to own a gun can be removed.

For another example, if you keep your chicken in such a way that you create a hazard to the health of others, your right to keep a chicken the way you are keeping it can be constrained.


Right, like keeping it in a residential neighbourhood. That's a health hazard. Shall I paste the quote again?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #202 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 6:42am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 6:27pm:
By definition always.
You claim your right to travel freely is absolute? That it gives you a right to trespass on other people's property?

You think your right to speak freely includes the right to defraud people out of their property?

That your right to be armed and protect your property permits you to shoot people in the back if you think they are shoplifting?

Other people have rights too, and in some situations, their rights force yours to give way.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #203 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 6:46am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 6:27pm:
There is no conflict between the right of an individual to keep his money and the right of the community to take his money for a public school.  That's because there is no right of the community to take his money for a public school.  There is only the power to do it which the majority can pass on to the government.

 
I know you believe that people can't decide to form governments, that all governments are illegitimate, and that any action by any government is therefore immoral.

That's puts you in the company of other lunatic fringe anarchists.
  
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #204 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 6:52am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:26pm:
Right, like keeping it in a residential neighbourhood. That's a health hazard. Shall I paste the quote again?
It could be a health hazard, and if it is, because of your stewardship of your chicken, any neighborhood would be justified in forcing you to get rid of the chicken or clean up the way you keep it.

Check you local laws and regulations. You can keep chickens in my residential neighborhood (as long as you don't create a health hazard or enough of a nuisance that your neighbors start complaining, in which case it will end up being a judgement call in court.)
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #205 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 6:52am:
It could be a health hazard, and if it is, because of your stewardship of your chicken, any neighborhood would be justified in forcing you to get rid of the chicken or clean up the way you keep it.

Check you local laws and regulations. You can keep chickens in my residential neighborhood (as long as you don't create a health hazard or enough of a nuisance that your neighbors start complaining, in which case it will end up being a judgement call in court.)


That sounds like a perfect system for a person like you, Jeff.  You get to be the neighborhood pest and if someone isn't keeping their house the way it suits you, you take them to court or get your HOA involved.  Even if you were to lose the great chicken case, you inconvenienced busy people and got attention which is what you were after in the first place.

Hey!   Just like you do on here . . .

  

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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #206 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 1:56pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
That sounds like a perfect system for a person like you, Jeff.  You get to be the neighborhood pest and if someone isn't keeping their house the way it suits you, you take them to court or get your HOA involved.
Under your 'system' of anarchy, I'd just shoot the rooster's owner and sell the chicken.

Chief was the one complaining. My neighbor's rooster doesn't bother me at all.
  
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #207 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 2:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 1:56pm:
Under your 'system' of anarchy, I'd just shoot the rooster's owner and sell the chicken.


Are you claiming that under anarchy, this would be right, or just that you'd get away with it?

Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
That sounds like a perfect system for a person like you, Jeff.  You get to be the neighborhood pest and if someone isn't keeping their house the way it suits you, you take them to court or get your HOA involved.


This is a perfect description of my experiences on any overpopulated planet I've been to. Social animals have both the desire to live together and the desire to be dominant.

People who demand more freedom actually want more dominance. There's plenty of freedom now.

People living under real tyranny who actually want and need more freedom don't call themselves libertarians. And they don't bother whipping up new ways to define others' actions as risks to themselves because they'd be so happy to be free of tyranny that they wouldn't care so much about restricting the actions of others, even if the NAP lets them (which it always does).

The NAP also lets them simply dismiss risks when they please and tell others to punish them after it causes harm. Drunk driving is an interesting case.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1408910672/0
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #208 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 2:25pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Are you claiming that under anarchy, this would be right, or just that you'd get away with it?
I don't know if I'd get away with it or not... The neighbor's relatives might come after me for shooting their Pa and taking his rooster. Shocked

Were you thinking perhaps that doing away with government would suddenly make everybody start following the NAP? Cheesy
  
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