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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #30 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
Torts are crimes lizard, they are crimes that have not been made a part of the criminal code.

You can argue that the lie about your fox biting someone caused your fox to be stolen from you by the police and that therefore the liar and the police are both thieves. Give it a try. Other sorts of lies that cause harm to people by taking their property are crimes, for instance fraud.

The liar defrauded you out of your pet fox... Ask a lawyer, I'm not sure that would fly...


I don't want to ask a lawyer about how it is. I want to ask a libertarian about how it ought to be.

What should happen to the one who committed the wrong and why?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #31 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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SnarkySack wrote yesterday at 1:48pm:
Quote:
Does the school district's use of the funds in that way violate anyone's rights?


Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Why ask, since you think taxation for education violates rights?

Is it right to tax people for one purpose and use the money for something else? No.


I'm asking what you think.  Are anyone's rights violated if the government decides to tax people for one purpose and use the money for something else?


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #32 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 5:09pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
I don't want to ask a lawyer about how it is. I want to ask a libertarian about how it ought to be.

What should happen to the one who committed the wrong and why?
In general, crimes are knowing violations of the rights of others, and torts are accidental violations of the rights of others.

If there is reasonable cause to believe that the liar did in fact lie and the intent was to have your property destroyed, a crime has been committed.

Wrongs have also been committed by the police who took your fox without probable cause, although there are probably state laws or local ordinances allowing police to take and hold animals reported to be dangerous until it can be determined if they really are dangerous.

That is government at work, not libertarian theory. Good libertarians would never knowingly endanger others, but government can't count on everyone being good libertarians.

You really do get to be a tiring bore lizard.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #33 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
I don't want to ask a lawyer about how it is. I want to ask a libertarian about how it ought to be.



Thank you!

That is the question we should be discussing here. 


  

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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #34 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
In general, crimes are knowing violations of the rights of others, and torts are accidental violations of the rights of others.

If there is reasonable cause to believe that the liar did in fact lie and the intent was to have your property destroyed, a crime has been committed.

Wrongs have also been committed by the police who took your fox without probable cause, although there are probably state laws or local ordinances allowing police to take and hold animals reported to be dangerous until it can be determined if they really are dangerous.

That is government at work, not libertarian theory. Good libertarians would never knowingly endanger others, but government can't count on everyone being good libertarians.

You really do get to be a tiring bore lizard.


If you're happy with the way the government works now, why the %$#& are you here?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #35 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 7:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:55pm:
If you're happy with the way the government works now, why the %$#& are you here?
I'm satisfied that the law, in it's broad categories of criminal law and civil torts is philosophically correct.

I'm not at all happy that the national government has usurped police powers and created bureaucratic SWAT teams to enforce "regulations" that are not laws according to the Constitution.


Hey, I said the liar had probably committed a crime, and that seizing property without probable cause and reasonable cause is extra-legal (and should be a crime).

Your fox was certainly aggressed against. Cry
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #36 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:00am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 7:10am:
I'm satisfied that the law, in it's broad categories of criminal law and civil torts is philosophically correct.

I'm not at all happy that the national government has usurped police powers and created bureaucratic SWAT teams to enforce "regulations" that are not laws according to the Constitution.


That's a reasonable answer. Thank you.

Jeff wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 7:10am:
Hey, I said the liar had probably committed a crime, and that seizing property without probable cause and reasonable cause is extra-legal (and should be a crime).

Your fox was certainly aggressed against. Cry


By the lying neighbour, right? Because the police were just doing their job and had no way to know the neighbour was being a spiteful ass rather than making a legitimate report?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #37 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:32am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
What should happen to the one who committed the wrong and why?

I would vote him off the island.

Yep.  Banishment.

Thats what Liberland will do.  After due process, of course.

Nobody will ever get a "25 - to - life"  sentence.  Citizenship is revoked, and they get deported.

Problem is eliminated.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #38 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:51am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:32am:
I would vote him off the island.

Yep.  Banishment.

Thats what Liberland will do.  After due process, of course.

Nobody will ever get a "25 - to - life"  sentence.  Citizenship is revoked, and they get deported.

Problem is eliminated.


And who should get banished in this case? The cop, the lying neighbour, the animal control employee who put in the needle, or the pet owner?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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GEMorton
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Re: Find the Aggression - Part 1
Reply #39 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:32am:
I would vote him off the island.

Yep.  Banishment.

Thats what Liberland will do.  After due process, of course.

Nobody will ever get a "25 - to - life"  sentence.  Citizenship is revoked, and they get deported.

Problem is eliminated.


Ever read Robert Heinlein's short story "Coventry"? Your suggestion there is the premise of that story.
  
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