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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #120 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:49pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:34pm:
It's a pilot program much like the UBI experiment in Switzerland.


$500/month isn't a basic income, and giving it to a few randomly selected people isn't a test of a UBI.

Vermont should do it, give everybody in Vermont a UBI and see how it works out. No federal subsidies to help it "work". How much would a UBI have to be in Vermont?

Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #121 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
$500/month isn't a basic income, and giving it to a few randomly selected people isn't a test of a UBI.


Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

From the article:

"A study by the Roosevelt Institute in New York, a left-leaning think tank, concludes that giving $500 a month to every adult American could meaningfully grow the U.S. economy and address its widening wealth gap. "

“All 300 million of us are going to come together and collectively own 30% of the country’s wealth.”


This is wealth re-distribution, plain and simple.   And the socialists plan to eventually do UBI on the national level.

Free money for everyone!  What could possibly go wrong?  Cheesy
  
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #122 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:08pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
From the article:

"A study by the Roosevelt Institute in New York, a left-leaning think tank, concludes that giving $500 a month to every adult American could meaningfully grow the U.S. economy and address its widening wealth gap. "

“All 300 million of us are going to come together and collectively own 30% of the country’s wealth.”


Geez, we already collectively own 28% of the land area of the U.S.-

Will it be the same kind of deal as it is with the land we own collectively? You know, the government lands...

As usual, they think legions of sky fairy unicorns are busy farting out vast amounts of wealth that should be shared around equally, and I agree, everyone is entitled to the exact same cubic of unicorn farts. Grin

Will they explain that this common ownership requires government force to accomplish? That it will require more powers and more manpower for the police state?

No. They will lie and pretend and talk about equitable shares and having a stake in the whole enterprise of raising and caring for farting unicorns.

Edit: The peasants always have to look after the livestock and give eggs to the elites who own farting unicorns.

Peasants must also capture any unicorn they see, report it immediately, and save the farts to give to the 300 million common owners of 30% of the unicorn.
  
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #123 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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How can they all be serious? There are (is?) tons of empirical evidence showing what happens when you tell people they are entitled to enough money to live comfortably and give it to them.

Edit: I propose that it makes people greedy and slothful and has bad effects on their character.

None of the evidence shows good effects unless you compare it to pure communism or pure anarchy.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #124 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:20pm:
How can they all be serious? There are (is?) tons of empirical evidence showing what happens when you tell people they are entitled to enough money to live comfortably and give it to them.

The welfare system rewards people for being non-productive.

A person has a simple choice:

bust his/her ass making $12/hr ($24k/yr)

OR quit his/her job, and get $35k/yr in welfare bennies.

It's kind of a no-brainer.
  
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #125 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:54pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
The welfare system rewards people for being non-productive.

And a UBI does the same, except it also rewards productive people by giving them some of their money back?

How many people pay more taxes than what they will get back from the UBI?

Hah! Just the rich!

Would the UBI in Vermont have to be $40,000/year?

How many people in Vermont pay more than $40,000 in taxes?... Bernie?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #126 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:51am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:54pm:
And a UBI does the same, except it also rewards productive people by giving them some of their money back?

How many people pay more taxes than what they will get back from the UBI?

Hah! Just the rich!

Would the UBI in Vermont have to be $40,000/year?

How many people in Vermont pay more than $40,000 in taxes?... Bernie?


Would you be fine with local communities providing a UBI?

If you disagreed but the majority in your community wanted it, would you accept that they have a right to take money through morally justified theft?

  

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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #127 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 1:36pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:51am:
Would you be fine with local communities providing a UBI?

If you disagreed but the majority in your community wanted it, would you accept that they have a right to take money through morally justified theft?

There would be no problem at all in convincing the people in my community that there is not enough money to fund a UBI unless the Federal Unicorn starts farting out wealth in our direction.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #128 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 4:06pm
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Snarky Sack wrote Today at 9:51am:
Quote:
Would you be fine with local communities providing a UBI?

If you disagreed but the majority in your community wanted it, would you accept that they have a right to take money through morally justified theft?


Jeff wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
There would be no problem at all in convincing the people in my community that there is not enough money to fund a UBI unless the Federal Unicorn starts farting out wealth in our direction.


Really?  Is your neighborhood that trailer trash that everyone is on welfare?  What if ninety percent of your neighborhood are hard working so would not accept a UBI plan, but then someone built an apartment complex for low-income residents and suddenly they have the majority?

They propose a six percent tax annually on homes valued 50,000 or over.  Enough to pay for a $500 per month UBI to each apartment household plus administrative costs.

What rights are competing, if any?

Be specific, please and thank you.





  

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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #129 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 5:04pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Really?  Is your neighborhood that trailer trash that everyone is on welfare?
What?
  
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