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Snarky Sack
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #140 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 1:25pm:
Is the government of NYC legitimate, in that the people have representatives they have elected in free fair elections who they can remove from office in free fair elections?


Yes.
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Is there anything in the current law governing the government of NYC that would make such a tax illegal?


No.

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If the answers are yes and no, then the government of NYC can legally enact such a tax and distribute the money as they choose, unless there are legal restrictions on how NYC tax revenue can be spent...


Then the tax is moral under your standard.

So, your morality depends entirely on the will of the majority as expressed through lawmakers they elected.

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When did a UBI come to be applied to households? I thought it applied to individuals?

Why has it become reasonable to imagine that $500/year is a basic "income"?

"Really bad government policies" are judged by their outcomes, are they not? No matter how noble and moral they sound.

If the outcome is to make people in general more poor and keep many of them dependent on government, wouldn't everyone say the policy was immoral?

No.

Some would say, having everyone equally poor and having everyone equally dependent on the government is a good, especially if it prevents them from becoming greedy capitalists.

As I've said, the idea of a UBI is fiscally unsound and morally repugnant because it treats adults as children, denying them the dignity that each individual has a right to under classical liberal theories, and further because it erodes a necessary part of maintaining a free society, that being that people work for their own benefit and have their property rights protected.

But of course, if the various boroughs of NYC want to exact local property taxes to create local schools for all the children of the community, I think that's a good idea. Smiley


Zzzzzzzzzz . . . Oh, excuse me.

So, we agree that the program would suck.  Would the legally levied and legally applied tax be moral or does that standard now change?


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #141 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 4:41pm:
Yes.

No.


Then the tax is moral under your standard.


No, it's legal.

What's the morality of preventing the people of NYC from constituting a government with the power to tax, or forcing the people of NYC to limit their government in ways they don't want to limit it?

Should the federal government step in and say, no, you can't spend local tax revenues on redistribution?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #142 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 1:58pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 4:41pm:
So, we agree that the program would suck.  Would the legally levied and legally applied tax be moral or does that standard now change?


A legally collected tax can be used for immoral purposes if those purposes are legal.

I don't know and don't much care if NYC has a charter that makes the redistribution of wealth illegal and they are just ignoring the law, or if they have a charter that makes wealth redistribution legal. There is nothing I can do about it either way.
  
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