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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment (Read 2674 times)
Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #30 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:44am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:07am:
Vermont's UBI idea is idiotic of course.  No one can explain what to do when a parent on UBI spends every penny on "payday" to buy losing lottery tickets. 
It's good you think it's an idiotic idea, but you don't see the real reason it's idiotic, which is because even a $10,000/person UBI would take the entire yearly revenue of Vermont, leaving nothing for any other function of the government of Vermont.

You should support it for that reason, that it would make the state government of Vermont disappear Smiley, including the Vermont Dept. of Revenue.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #31 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:49am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:07am:
If the poor riot, let citizen militias eliminate them.
If the people of America become poor because of their own government, the Revolutionary Right that led to the creation of the U.S. (which is outlined in the Declaration of Independence) should mean that the militias will be taking action to restore a government of by and for the People. The citizen militias you speak of will after all also be made poor.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #32 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:44am:
It's good you think it's an idiotic idea, but you don't see the real reason it's idiotic, which is because even a $10,000/person UBI would take the entire yearly revenue of Vermont, leaving nothing for any other function of the government of Vermont.

You should support it for that reason, that it would make the state government of Vermont disappear Smiley, including the Vermont Dept. of Revenue.
Well?

Do you want the Vermont Dept. of Revenue (or whatever they call it) to disappear, or not?

A UBI seems a great way to accomplish that goal.

Think it through before you respond, thanks. Kiss
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #33 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:17pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:07am:
No one can explain what to do when a parent on UBI spends every penny on "payday" to buy losing lottery tickets. 

How are the children fed then?


Stop all payments and take the kid.

Lawbreakers don't get UBI checks, and child abuse is breaking the law. Yes, starving your kid when you have absolutely no economic excuse to do so is child abuse.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #34 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:38am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:17pm:
Lawbreakers don't get UBI checks...
Then it's not really Universal is it? Will there be other exemptions?

My prediction is, when the experts in Vermont start figuring out their plan for a UBI and discover that it will be necessary to raise taxes by a rather large amount, that the next people after criminals to be exempted from a UBI will be the rich, perhaps anyone who has income above the median... Although I think they will have to consider assets rather than just income.
There are some very rich people with almost no taxable income.
Anyway lizard, don't you think Vermont should be the state to test it?
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #35 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:48am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:44am:
It's good you think it's an idiotic idea, but you don't see the real reason it's idiotic, which is because even a $10,000/person UBI would take the entire yearly revenue of Vermont, leaving nothing for any other function of the government of Vermont.

You should support it for that reason, that it would make the state government of Vermont disappear Smiley, including the Vermont Dept. of Revenue.


Yeah.  Great argument. 

Nothing would scare a libertarian more than the  threat of a layer of government disappearing.  Especially that all-important-to-libertarians department of revenue.

Jeff, do this board a favor and look up the word "libertarian" in a dictionary, please and thank you.


  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #36 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:52am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:23am:
It's just the truth. IRS agents are not authorized to use deadly force unless they are in imminent danger, the same standard that applies to everyone



Except that "everyone" doesn't go to people's houses to evict them from their own property because the taxman says so.  They put themselves in imminent danger when they do that, because resisting is the natural right and the natural reaction to being forced off of one's own property.

If a citizen resisted with a gun a motorcycle gang who wanted his house for a "hangout," you would not argue that the gang has the moral authority to shoot him because the gang is in imminent danger.

How does government gain the moral authority to do that?  Can your answer ever be anything else but, "majority rules?"



  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #37 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:54am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:23am:
Since you think taxation is theft and therefore immoral, it's easy to predict that as your only argument.


You agreed that it is immoral.  You said that it is, "slightly less immoral" than not funding public schools.  But, I guess slightly more immoral" than feeding the kids in those school?

Your moral system is convoluted to say the least, Jeff.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #38 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:58am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:48am:
Yeah.  Great argument. 

Nothing would scare a libertarian more than the  threat of a layer of government disappearing.  Especially that all-important-to-libertarians department of revenue.

Jeff, do this board a favor and look up the word "libertarian" in a dictionary, please and thank you.


You think the absurdity that the government of Vermont would actually just disappear if they implemented a UBI is an actual possibility?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Swiss Prepare To Launch Another UBI Experiment
Reply #39 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:02am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:52am:
Except that "everyone" doesn't go to people's houses to evict them from their own property because the taxman says so.  They put themselves in imminent danger when they do that, because resisting is the natural right and the natural reaction to being forced off of one's own property.


If you respond to people who are granted police powers (whether those powers are legitimate or not) with violence, expect them to respond with violence. They go armed to evict people because some people will respond with deadly force.

There is a threat of force behind all taxation, but it's your response alone that can turn it into deadly force.
  
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