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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If You Support Mandatory Insurance... (Read 596 times)
Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #10 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 4:53pm:
So,, you believe that a person with no drivers license should be allowed to drive on public roads?
The training required to get a drivers license is far less rigorous than the training required to get a racing license, but not even a professional race school can make you a racer, and the training you need to get a driver's license certainly doesn't make you a driver.

The question I have for you is, why should the state infringe on a persons right to travel freely about the country on public roadways for any reason?

(I'll start with an obvious reason, repeated reckless driving that causes death and lots of property damage.)

OK, you say not having a license is just as bad as reckless driving and the person should have her rights infringed as if she had killed people on the road due to recklessness?

You keep having all these statist ideas based on fantasies.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #11 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:01pm:
The training required to get a drivers license is far less rigorous than the training required to get a racing license, but not even a professional race school can make you a racer, and the training you need to get a driver's license certainly doesn't make you a driver.

The question I have for you is, why should the state infringe on a persons right to travel freely about the country on public roadways for any reason?

(I'll start with an obvious reason, repeated reckless driving that causes death and lots of property damage.)

OK, you say not having a license is just as bad as reckless driving and the person should have her rights infringed as if she had killed people on the road due to recklessness?

You keep having all these statist ideas based on fantasies.



I don’t see a yes or no answer.
  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #12 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:18pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:03pm:
I don’t see a yes or no answer.
Is driving on public roads a right? YES.

I just asked you to make your case for the "no" position, where driving is held to be a privilege granted by government.

It gets tiring having to keep asking you the same questions.

(Were you able to pick out the yes? Grin)
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #13 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:02pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
Is driving on public roads a right? YES.

I just asked you to make your case for the "no" position, where driving is held to be a privilege granted by government.

It gets tiring having to keep asking you the same questions.

(Were you able to pick out the yes? Grin)


Yes, you could have saved a lot of typing by saying it in the first place.

I won't make the case for the "no" position because you are right in this case.  Freedom of movement is a right and no human being needs a license from government to move freely in any form of transportation they own.

  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #14 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:15pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Yes, you could have saved a lot of typing by saying it in the first place.

I won't make the case for the "no" position because you are right in this case.  Freedom of movement is a right and no human being needs a license from government to move freely in any form of transportation they own.

You started the conversation by asking me this- "So, you oppose requiring drivers on public  roads to be licensed?"

Why did you ask me that?

I argued previously on this very forum that driving on the public roads is a right.

In the future, if you can't remember me commenting on something, ask the lizard. It knows how to use pretty good search engines I think, and has an infallible photographic memory, like Teddy Roosevelt had. TR was a supergenius. Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #15 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:02pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
In the future, if you can't remember me commenting on something, ask the lizard. It knows how to use pretty good search engines I think, and has an infallible photographic memory, like Teddy Roosevelt had. TR was a supergenius. Smiley


The only search engine I'm using is this forum's.

I remember what was said. I put it in quotes. Out pops the relevant post.

And I only do this because it's inconvenient to go back through hundreds of pages of topics that may not be in the same general order as they were when the relevant debates were occurring.

Sometimes posts get deleted. I go to a search engine like Bing and find what was cached.

The only thing I don't like about TR was that moustache. Ungh. *shudder*

There's a handegg coach who has that moustache, and every time his team is on (I believe it's the Chiefs) me and my beloved joke about how Walrus Man is going to devour the opposing team, using the tusks he's hiding to crack their helmets like clam shells and eat their brains.

While we're on the subject of my incredible intellect, a truly libertarian world might see the rise of fully competent four-year-olds doing things you would probably shit your diapers to witness them doing. I might be amazing, but I'm only a 1/1000, and that's not so great when you realise how many thousands of people there are. I suspect you'll backpedal when you so much as envision a four-year-old driving a car, even if he's capable.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #16 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 8:40am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:02pm:
The only thing I don't like about TR was that moustache. Ungh. *shudder*

That makes sense. Teddy was "...a reform Assemblyman in 1882, a reform Civil Service Commissioner in 1889, and a reform Police Commissioner in 1895, but aristocratic paternalism had dominated his thinking until 1898." (From Edmund Morris' The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt @ page 733.)

Teddy had good reasons to want America to become an expansionist world empire, good reasons to get us into the Spanish American War (freeing Cuba and making the Philippines a protectorate/colony)... And that's just before he became President! By the time he became President, when McKinley died from an anarchists gunshot wounds shortly after Teddy became Vice President, Teddy was pretty firmly a Progressive.

It started out as a result of being a reformer, fighting successfully against cronies in government and cronies in protected industries.

I think it made him believe that government was the answer to any problem, rather than just to problems created by government in the first place.

Anyway, I can see why you like him.
  
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GEMorton
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #17 - Sep 20th, 2018 at 12:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 9:17am:
Agreed Chief. The lizard isn't likely to find libertarians that support mandatory car insurance.


Well, Surprise! Here is one.

Mandatory auto liability insurance differs from (say) mandatory health insurance, in that it is required only if you operate a motor vehicle on public roadways. If you drive your car only on your own property, or on other private property (with the owner's permission) you don't need insurance.

Does the public have a right to condition use of its roadways upon having insurance or other evidence of financial responsibility? Of course --- suppose the road is owned, not by the public, but by Alfie, Bruno, & Sons. Would they have the right to insist that you have insurance before using their road?

The public has the same right.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #18 - Sep 20th, 2018 at 1:20pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
You started the conversation by asking me this- "So, you oppose requiring drivers on public  roads to be licensed?"

Why did you ask me that?

I argued previously on this very forum that driving on the public roads is a right.

In the future, if you can't remember me commenting on something, ask the lizard. It knows how to use pretty good search engines I think, and has an infallible photographic memory, like Teddy Roosevelt had. TR was a supergenius. Smiley


Yeah, I won't bother Opposition with questions about you.  I assumed you would embrace the idea of licensing since that is such an easy way for the government to exercise the right you assign it to morally justified theft. 

So, just to be clear, you are fine with anyone driving on public roads with any vehicle that the individual judges to be roadworthy? 

You see no role for the government in keeping public roads safe?


  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #19 - Sep 20th, 2018 at 11:19pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Sep 20th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
Yeah, I won't bother Opposition with questions about you.  I assumed you would embrace the idea of licensing since that is such an easy way for the government to exercise the right you assign it to morally justified theft. 

So, just to be clear, you are fine with anyone driving on public roads with any vehicle that the individual judges to be roadworthy? 

You see no role for the government in keeping public roads safe?


He's in favour of medical licensing. I said I wasn't in favour of it and he disagreed strongly. Only when I changed my position did he say I was wrong again, thus changing his position to being opposed to mandatory medical licensing.

Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 6:13pm:
The Opposition wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
For example, it's not very nice to stop an unlicensed doctor from providing substandard care to a patient for whom he is the only hope. You're just mandating that the patient die, then.


fooch

Edit: Coward. Dishonest evasive coward. Not my problem, but it might be why your Mother tried to kill you.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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