Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 25 26 [27] 28  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If You Support Mandatory Insurance... (Read 3980 times)
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9032
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #260 - Mar 5th, 2019 at 9:49pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Mar 3rd, 2019 at 7:43pm:
What I disagreed with was the connotation where you made it sound like I'm saying that they are government's roads and they can do anything they want with them.


That's what I thought you thought. You said it was their choice how to regulate insurance on the roads they build.

I tried to press you for whether there was a reasonability standard (asking you whether it would be more fair if they let everyone vote on the issue) but you didn't like that, and you said fairness wasn't the job of government.

So you successfully dodged. You won the argument, but if I try to get answers out of you and can't get them, you can't blame me for making the likeliest assumption.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Minarchist

Posts: 6915
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #261 - Mar 6th, 2019 at 6:27am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Mar 5th, 2019 at 9:49pm:
That's what I thought you thought. You said it was their choice how to regulate insurance on the roads they build.

I tried to press you for whether there was a reasonability standard (asking you whether it would be more fair if they let everyone vote on the issue) but you didn't like that, and you said fairness wasn't the job of government.

So you successfully dodged. You won the argument, but if I try to get answers out of you and can't get them, you can't blame me for making the likeliest assumption.


What the fvck?  I kept saying the regulation of the roads by government is subject to the will of the voters.  And I said there is no dissent.  This isn't even tyranny of the majority, it's actually consent.

And you say you kept pressing and I wouldn't answer?

At this point I'm going to have to call bull shit to your claim that you "read every word" of my posts.  You read barely any of them
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40016
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #262 - Mar 6th, 2019 at 7:41am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Mar 5th, 2019 at 9:49pm:
I tried to press you for whether there was a reasonability standard (asking you whether it would be more fair if they let everyone vote on the issue) but you didn't like that, and you said fairness wasn't the job of government.
States have broad powers to regulate for the health and safety of all the citizens in their state. They can make things illegal which relate to the health and safety of the community, such as speed limits and rules of the road, but the power does not extend to things unrelated to actual health and safety.

It's a part of a vision of having a civilized society of ordered liberty, allowing maximum liberty to individuals by removing threats to the community, i.e. you aren't free to dump toxic waste into the river or drive at 100 mph through residential neighborhoods. (And as you know, I think most such things can be handled by tort law and protected property rights.)

Anyway, mandating that every driver buy insurance does not improve safety on the highways. If you have insurance, your property is protected against loss if you have or cause an accident or are the victim of an accident caused by another driver, but you are not "protected" in any way that makes you or anyone else on the road more safe.

States have no more legitimate authority to mandate that you buy auto insurance than to mandate that you buy insurance on your prize stud stallion, which by the way won't prevent your stallion from dying or being stolen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9032
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #263 - Mar 6th, 2019 at 9:28pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Mar 6th, 2019 at 6:27am:
I kept saying the regulation of the roads by government is subject to the will of the voters.


Actually I asked you that very question - whether they should put mandatory insurance to a vote. Then you did as you usually do and won with dirty tactics.

kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 7:19pm:
That would be one choice that government can make on roads it built and regulates.  Or they could require you to buy insurance to drive on government roads.  They choice the latter


The Opposition wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 7:33pm:
Would it be more fair if everyone who pays taxes for those roads got to vote on that choice?


kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 8:25pm:
Fair has nothing to do with government.  This doesn't address anything we're discussing.  If you want to be a democracy (we aren't one) that's fine, argue for it.  But it has nothing to do with government has the right to regulate the roads or it doesn't.  I say it does, you are vague and constantly contradict yourself.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Minarchist

Posts: 6915
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #264 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 6:35am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Mar 6th, 2019 at 9:28pm:
Actually I asked you that very question - whether they should put mandatory insurance to a vote. Then you did as you usually do and won with dirty tactics


I'm not seeing any insults in there.  Where are these "dirty tactics?" 

Go to it, young man.  Go get a ballot referendum.  I never said you can't do that. 

Opposition:  I want the people to vote

kaz:  OK, whatever, go do it

Opposition:  OMG, those are dirty tactics!

How are those dirty tactics?   I said nowhere that you are not allowed to try to get a referendum on car insurance.  You won't get it because no one cares and if you do get it you will lose because most people support car insurance for driving on public roads.  But nowhere did I criticize you for wanting the referendum.

Buck up
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9032
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #265 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 10:39am
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 6:35am:
Where are these "dirty tactics?" 


You said fair had nothing to do with government, using that to refute me asking you a question. When you won, and I agreed, you immediately accused me of misquoting you.

If your position had all along been that people should vote on it, the answer would have been a simple yes.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AlayneLeung
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 813
Joined: Mar 20th, 2015
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #266 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 4:39pm
Print Post  
Theoretically, United States Constitution and Amendment IX of it provides for allowing Congress to provide for a right of public safety on federal roads, and theoretically state or local governments can do the same via United States Constitution Amendment X.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40016
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #267 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:44am
Print Post  
AlayneLeung wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 4:39pm:
Theoretically, United States Constitution and Amendment IX
Not even close.

The 9th Amendment makes clear that our individual rights are broad and inclusive and not at all limited to the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

States had powers to legislate for health and safety prior to the ratification of the Constitution, and that those powers are retained is made clear by the 10th Amendment.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Minarchist

Posts: 6915
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #268 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:46am
Print Post  
AlayneLeung wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 4:39pm:
Theoretically, United States Constitution and Amendment IX of it provides for allowing Congress to provide for a right of public safety on federal roads, and theoretically state or local governments can do the same via United States Constitution Amendment X.


You are confused on the Constitution and bill of rights.  Those amendments  don't say what you think they say
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Minarchist

Posts: 6915
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #269 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:51am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 10:39am:
You said fair had nothing to do with government, using that to refute me asking you a question. When you won, and I agreed, you immediately accused me of misquoting you.


You really are a terrible reader.   That wasn't my argument. You said something about government and fairness.  I said fair had nothing to do with government, but I said that then went on to my argument saying that they are government roads and with that government can regulate them.  Try reading it again. 

Also, you haven't explained your arbitrary standards that government can regulate some aspects of roads and not others.  They can prevent for example children and the blind from driving, but they can't regulate insurance.  Based on what standard?  You just make up your standards as you go. 

And you've completely not explained your argument that I have a double standard because I believe we have different rights on public property and our own property.  You're a constant self contradiction on all this

The Opposition wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 10:39am:
If your position had all along been that people should vote on it, the answer would have been a simple yes.


Nope.  I never said people "should" vote on it.  I said go to it and convince people if you want a vote.  You really are a horrible reader.

So again, I have no problem with you pushing the issue to a vote.  That is totally your right to do so.  I am not saying there "should" be a vote.  It won't pass and I support mandatory insurance to drive on public roads.

The only people it benefits to not have mandatory insurance are people who have no assets or income to protect from a lawsuit
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 25 26 [27] 28 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy