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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If You Support Mandatory Insurance... (Read 1129 times)
The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #80 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 10:30am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 7:24am:
I don't need to. The word has a standard accepted meaning-

https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/fascism


1.      a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government; - opposed to democracy and liberalism.

You accept the first definition?

Bear in mind I hate doing this. I think arguing by the dictionary is dishonest. I think you know it's beneficial to your dishonesty which is why you insist everyone else define everything but you just run to the dictionary.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #81 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 10:39am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 10:30am:
1.      a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government; - opposed to democracy and liberalism.

You accept the first definition?

Bear in mind I hate doing this. I think arguing by the dictionary is dishonest. I think you know it's beneficial to your dishonesty which is why you insist everyone else define everything but you just run to the dictionary.
I accept the broad meaning as given by all four.

I'm not arguing by the dictionary, I'm simply informing Red of my understanding of the term fascism.

If you agree with Red that the collection of taxes makes any government fascist, say so.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #82 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:05am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 10:39am:
I accept the broad meaning as given by all four.


Then you rule out 3. The third definition is extremely specific.

The way you win arguments is to never define anything specifically enough that you would have to say, "Yes, that meets that definition."

You can always just weasel out later and say, "No, I didn't mean it that way."

So you're arguing that tax collection by force is "not fascist" but you're not making a statement anyone could ever dispute successfully because you'll only go with meanings too broad to pin down.

So really, you're not even making a statement. You're not even using language. You're just farting into the wind.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #83 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 3:59pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:05am:
Then you rule out 3. The third definition is extremely specific.

No. My idea of what fascism means is broadly described by all four together. That's how I read things like that unless there is a modern and obsolete meaning or something.

Dictionaries frequently give specific examples to help clarify the meaning or a word or phrase...

I take it you are not much familiar with dictionaries? Cry
  
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #84 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:05am:
So you're arguing that tax collection by force is "not fascist"...
I argued that collecting taxes does not automatically make a government fascist.

As I said, if you want to take the position that any government that collects taxes is fascist, go ahead.

The term fascist, as defined by my dictionary citation, is not that broad at all.

You just think it's broad because so many collectivist/communist/socialist/national socialist/democratic republic governments currently fall within the definition, and you don't want to admit it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #85 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:45pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:05am:
So really, you're not even making a statement.

Since you obviously missed it, here it is again- Collecting taxes does not automatically define a government as fascist.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #86 - Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
The term fascist, as defined by my dictionary citation, is not that broad at all.

You just think it's broad because so many collectivist/communist/socialist/national socialist/democratic republic governments currently fall within the definition, and you don't want to admit it.


I think all definitions except 3 are extremely broad because they are, and you admitted that you're not going for any specific definition - just the broad sense that connects them.

Well, congratulations, you win. If you won't tell us what you're talking about, we can't have a discussion about it, much less prove anything to you about it.

Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
I argued that collecting taxes does not automatically make a government fascist.

As I said, if you want to take the position that any government that collects taxes is fascist, go ahead.


I don't. I'm just asking what you think about a government that collects taxes by force.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #87 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:29am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
I think all definitions except 3 are extremely broad because they are, and you admitted that you're not going for any specific definition - just the broad sense that connects them.

In other words, after reading all four, you still don't have any idea what fascism is.

  
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #88 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
I'm just asking what you think about a government that collects taxes by force.
There is a threat of force behind all taxation.

I don't know of any government that doesn't collect taxes.

Some governments that collect taxes are far worse than others.

Red says if a government collects taxes, it is fascist, and you think he's wrong even though you don't understand the meaning of fascism...
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #89 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 12:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:29am:
In other words, after reading all four, you still don't have any idea what fascism is.


When it comes to what you think fascism is, no, I have no idea. I have an idea of what I think it is (Definition 1), but you would just dispute it, and you'd win, because you're setting the definitions and you won't pin anything down, so you can't lose.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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