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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If You Support Mandatory Insurance... (Read 5373 times)
Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #90 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 12:30pm:
When it comes to what you think fascism is, no, I have no idea. I have an idea of what I think it is (Definition 1), but you would just dispute it, and you'd win, because you're setting the definitions and you won't pin anything down, so you can't lose.
You think fascism is limited to theory and can't be/hasn't been ever practiced?

I am most definitely not controlling the definition in the dictionary I linked to, I'm just saying that I agree that that is the meaning of fascism, that's what I think fascism is.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #91 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 7:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
You think fascism is limited to theory and can't be/hasn't been ever practiced?

I am most definitely not controlling the definition in the dictionary I linked to, I'm just saying that I agree that that is the meaning of fascism, that's what I think fascism is.


You won't pin down what you think fascism is, so you can dispute anyone who says anything is fascist and can't lose.

No one knows (or is allowed to know) what you're talking about, except you. It's not a conversation; it's flatulence.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #92 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 7:01am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
You won't pin down what you think fascism is, so you can dispute anyone who says anything is fascist and can't lose.

No one knows (or is allowed to know) what you're talking about, except you. It's not a conversation; it's flatulence.
This definition of fascism clearly defines what I think fascism is, as a theory and in practice-

https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/fascism


What I disputed was Red's assertion that the collection of taxes is "fascist" or somehow defines a fascist government or whatever he meant.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #93 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:04pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 27th, 2018 at 8:46am:
If you are being robbed at gunpoint, you are being threatened with bodily harm or death, in which case you can shoot the thief.


Is being put in a jail followed by prison incarceration with known violent offenders, “bodily harm?”

Because that’s what I’m threatened with if I don’t pay my taxes.

  

Snarky no more!
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Jeff
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #94 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:10pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Is being put in a jail followed by prison incarceration with known violent offenders, “bodily harm?”

Because that’s what I’m threatened with if I don’t pay my taxes.

fooch
  
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kaz
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #95 - Jan 1st, 2019 at 12:54pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 1:27am:
If you support mandatory insurance of any type, such as car insurance, do you also support government regulations on prices, since we can't simply choose not to buy the product?

Or would it be aggression to tell a business what it can and can't charge?


False equivalency.  I'm assuming that by "car insurance" you're referring to government roads, not driving on your own property which doesn't require insurance.

I'd ask you questions, but you play games between that you're a big government leftist and an anarchist and you won't answer them honestly.

But ceding the power to build roads to government includes regulating their use.  No one is required to buy insurance unless they drive on government roads.  A power we ceded to government.

That has zero to do with price fixing, which is government controlling private assets in private hands and is a direct violation of the fifth amendment.
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #96 - Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:02pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 12:54pm:
False equivalency.


There's no equivalency attempted. I'm not saying it "must be right" for one interference to merit another interference.

I'm asking you if you think it is.

If you don't like that your beliefs are that the government should step in to feed insurance companies forced customers (which it has every right to do on its own roads, as you point out) but not to keep prices under control, that's your problem.

Just because the government has a right to do something doesn't mean it necessarily should, which is why I'm asking a question.

The government could also not force you to have insurance (that's true in a couple states for motorcycles and the world hasn't ended) or institute a harsh penalty for driving without insurance and causing an accident.

As you point out, those are the government's roads. (Just because my taxes pay for their upkeep doesn't mean I have property in them.) They're free to make me have insurance to drive on them, or even deny people who don't have a million dollars the right to drive on them.

kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 12:54pm:
I'd ask you questions, but you play games between that you're a big government leftist and an anarchist and you won't answer them honestly.


I don't personally like many of the results I believe libertarianism will have. The car insurance thing is a good example. I'm forced to buy insurance, but there's not real competition, because I can't just not buy the product if it's too expensive, and that is very much a factor is keeping the prices down of many products.

But I have come to believe the free market is moral, and that whether I like the results or not, aggression is always wrong.

This is the honest answer. It's not a game. It confounds everyone because peoples' politics are generally focused around their own interests, and I believe what is right is against my interests.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #97 - Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:08pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:02pm:
There's no equivalency attempted. I'm not saying it "must be right" for one interference to merit another interference.

I'm asking you if you think it is.

If you don't like that your beliefs are that the government should step in to feed insurance companies forced customers (which it has every right to do on its own roads, as you point out) but not to keep prices under control, that's your problem.

Just because the government has a right to do something doesn't mean it necessarily should, which is why I'm asking a question.

The government could also not force you to have insurance (that's true in a couple states for motorcycles and the world hasn't ended) or institute a harsh penalty for driving without insurance and causing an accident.

As you point out, those are the government's roads. (Just because my taxes pay for their upkeep doesn't mean I have property in them.) They're free to make me have insurance to drive on them, or even deny people who don't have a million dollars the right to drive on them.


I don't personally like many of the results I believe libertarianism will have. The car insurance thing is a good example. I'm forced to buy insurance, but there's not real competition, because I can't just not buy the product if it's too expensive, and that is very much a factor is keeping the prices down of many products.

But I have come to believe the free market is moral, and that whether I like the results or not, aggression is always wrong.

This is the honest answer. It's not a game. It confounds everyone because peoples' politics are generally focused around their own interests, and I believe what is right is against my interests.


If you think insurance is expensive, that's a good testament to why you should have it.  If you cause harm, you obviously can't pay for it.  Insurance protects us on government roads from people like you.

If you want to drive on private roads with no insurance, go to it.


And you made the connection between being forced to buy insurance to drive on government roads and price controls.  Stop the stupid shit.  It's a false equivalency.

We ceded the power to government to build roads.  We did not cede the power to government to control prices.  It violates the fifth amendment for them to do so
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #98 - Jan 1st, 2019 at 3:22pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:08pm:
If you think insurance is expensive, that's a good testament to why you should have it.  If you cause harm, you obviously can't pay for it.  Insurance protects us on government roads from people like you.


The minimum liability is $10,000. I wouldn't think it was expensive if they just let me turn $10,000 over to an account that would be harvested in case I hurt someone, but would go back to me if I quit driving or die (passing to any heir I might have). In fact, being self-insured like that used to be legal in many places, and now, it isn't.

I have never caused an accident in my life. I was, however, hit by an uninsured driver when I was 19, my car was totaled, and nothing was done to make me whole after those losses.

From where I sit, insurance exists to make money, like any other business, not protect people from those losses, because it doesn't protect people from those losses.

You're building a case on the idea that causing an accident and not being able to pay shouldn't be allowed to happen, but it is allowed to happen.

kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:08pm:
And you made the connection between being forced to buy insurance to drive on government roads and price controls.  Stop the stupid shit.  It's a false equivalency.


I didn't say the two were equivalent. There's a connection, but they're not equivalent.

What I am claiming is that in a totally free market, I would pay less for insurance, or be self-insured.

If, instead of being forced to buy a product, I was forced to simply put that same money away in an account that would be harvested if I caused an accident, the victim would get much more.

kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 2:08pm:
We ceded the power to government to build roads.  We did not cede the power to government to control prices.  It violates the fifth amendment for them to do so


Obviously. My point is simply that because the government has the power to make people buy insurance, and not the power to control prices for that effect, the insurance companies make more than they would if the government did not force people to buy insurance.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: If You Support Mandatory Insurance...
Reply #99 - Jan 1st, 2019 at 4:06pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 3:22pm:
The minimum liability is $10,000. I wouldn't think it was expensive if they just let me turn $10,000 over to an account that would be harvested in case I hurt someone, but would go back to me if I quit driving or die (passing to any heir I might have). In fact, being self-insured like that used to be legal in many places, and now, it isn't


I wouldn't have an issue with self insurance plans.  But insurance is dirt cheap unless you're really poor or have a really bad driving record.

That you can afford to put up $10K as self insurance but you can't spend less than a thousand a year for coverage doesn't make sense
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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