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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . . (Read 302 times)
Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #40 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:14pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
So, under your moral compass, morality is entirely about the results? 



Some results are moral, and some are not.

Sometimes the results of actions undertaken for absolutely moral reasons are horribly wrong.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #41 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Some results are moral, and some are not.

Sometimes the results of actions undertaken for absolutely moral reasons are horribly wrong.


Right, but you’re saying that actions are judged by the results, not by the actions themselves.  As you have stated, theft becomes moral if it is for the purpose of educating children.

So if someone said, “I just saw a guy steal something,” you would have to know what he was stealing it for to know if it was moral or immoral.  Like if he was taking a guy’s property for auction to pay off local taxes for education, that’s moral because the result is educated children and because the local people decided to take the property through their lawfully elected representatives.

However . . . If the guy is from the federal government and he is taking the same property for auction to pay off income taxes, that is immoral even though the national people decided to take it through their lawfully elected representatives, because your interpretation of the USC is that income taxes are unlawful.


I think I at least understand your position, now, thanks!

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #42 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:35pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Right, but you’re saying that actions are judged by the results, not by the actions themselves. 
No, I mean to say that both are important, and that their relative importance is situational, and it is often possible to learn of which was best only by looking at results.

But human history is full of known results that are supremely useful in judging whether you should do some certain thing, or not.

Moral sounding actions sometimes produce horrid results.

Horrid tyrannical immoral theft type sounding things like taxation sometimes produce the Blessings of Liberty.
  
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Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #43 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
I think I at least understand your position, now, thanks!

If you do, you are hiding your understanding well! Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #44 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 5:36pm:
If you do, you are hiding your understanding well! Smiley


I think you know very well that it's logically impossible to understand your position just as much as it would be to know the momentum and position of any given electron at any given time.

(Hint: Every time anyone tries to quantify or measure your positions, or even make sense of them, you just change them.)
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #45 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:46am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm:
I think you know very well that it's logically impossible to understand your position just as much as it would be to know the momentum and position of any given electron at any given time.

(Hint: Every time anyone tries to quantify or measure your positions, or even make sense of them, you just change them.)
It only seems that way because you are reasoning from an absolutist position and demanding that I provide pat answers to questions involving absolutes.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #46 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:20am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm:
I think you know very well that it's logically impossible to understand your position just as much as it would be to know the momentum and position of any given electron at any given time.

(Hint: Every time anyone tries to quantify or measure your positions, or even make sense of them, you just change them.)


Wow.  That is such an astute analogy.

I could have never come up with it, that's the difference between a near genius and a genius.

It reminds me of playing poker.  You want to play whenever possible with players who are just almost as good as you.  The ideal player for me would be myself six months ago.  When a good player sits at a table with a bunch of beginners, it's like herding cats.  They stay in with hands like a seven and a four.  You raise against them with queens and they stay in because they want to see the flop.  sure enough they flop two pair and you just lost a moron.

With Jeff it's more like the moron had a pair of threes and when you show him queens, he draws A's on his threes and calls the floor man over to accuse you of cheating.
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #47 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 12:42pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:20am:
With Jeff it's more like the moron had a pair of threes and when you show him queens, he draws A's on his threes and calls the floor man over to accuse you of cheating.
Do you think?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #48 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 12:17am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:20am:
With Jeff it's more like the moron had a pair of threes and when you show him queens, he draws A's on his threes and calls the floor man over to accuse you of cheating.


When the floor man is an illogical, tight-lipped Cuban like the NAP who says little at all and less definitively, it becomes that much easier for people to get away with such Jeff-ery.

I also have to admit that you might beat me at poker.

Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Wow.  That is such an astute analogy.

I could have never come up with it, that's the difference between a near genius and a genius.


Me ⇓



(It's a very, very happy cat.)
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: If Police Come to Arrest me for a Crime I know I Never Committed . . .
Reply #49 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 12:17am:
When the floor man is an illogical, tight-lipped Cuban like the NAP who says little at all and less definitively, it becomes that much easier for people to get away with such Jeff-ery.

You are the contributor here who insists the NAP is the ultimate arbiter of all questions (and you define aggression far too narrowly) and Red is the one insisting that everything be judged by some moral standard...

Is it moral to judge every human action and interaction by a moral standard?

I keep telling both of you that the common law is the best place to look for answers to specific cases and instances because it is based on a morality of property rights and justice, and underlying most of are the basic ideas of thou shall not murder and thou shall not steal.
  
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