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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights (Read 517 times)
SkyChief
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Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:23am
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1.5 million felons in Florida want to vote.

The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition (FRRC) initiated the measure.

“You steal a chicken, it’s a felony; you go to jail and you lose the right [to vote] … You have more and more people being thrown into jail, and mostly blacks—these laws are not basically applied to whites very often.”

To pass, at least 60% of the state’s voters must support it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/florida-felons-want-their-v...

I'm against it.  Voters must be able to make prudent decisions.

IMO, a person who commits a felony has demonstrated that he/she is unable to make prudent decisions. 
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #1 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:50pm
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I believe voting is a right, not a privilege. I know it is ruinous to let certain people vote, felons included. But as long as the government governs over them, they have a right to a say in how they are governed.

The case of felons is an interesting one, because in committing crimes, they spurn the authority of government. No, they say, I will not follow this law.

Regardless, I don't think we can throw them in prison or impose consequences without reaffirming that authority. I do believe that however impractical it would be, if the government left them alone to break any law they wished, they could be legitimately stripped of the right to vote.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 2:34pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:50pm:
I believe voting is a right, not a privilege.
That's because you don't understand the concept if inherent rights, which existed prior to the formation of any government.

A right to self defense is an inherent right, it existed prior to the creation of governments.

To say the same thing about voting is absurd. The idea of voting came along with ideas of collective decision making and representative government, and one of the things people did when they created representative governments was decide who should be allowed to vote.


  
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The Opposition
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 2:34pm:
That's because you don't understand the concept if inherent rights,


It's because I do, actually. The right to a voice in how you are governed arises from the consent of the governed, without which government is pure tyranny.

It also arises out of the practical truth that if the government can take away votes, the next they take might be yours. But you're incapable of understanding this because you make so absolutely sure you're always on the right side of history.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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AlayneLeung
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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As corrupt as governments get sometimes, why allow them to take away any rights? Better to improve government(s) by using legislation(s) to regulate said government(s).
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:33pm by AlayneLeung »  
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SkyChief
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #5 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
As corrupt as governments get sometimes, why allow them to take away any rights? Better to improve governments by using legislat ion to regulate said governments.

Legislation and regulations are designed to take liberty away from citizens.

More Legislation and regulation only serves to make government stronger and more powerful.
  
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AlayneLeung
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #6 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:18pm
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What I mean is, let's improve legislation(s) of how government(s) function(s) so that citizen(s) aren't mistreated by government(s).
  
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #7 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:17pm:
It's because I do, actually. The right to a voice in how you are governed arises from the consent of the governed, without which government is pure tyranny.

I agree, but that doesn't necessitate any sort of pure democracy.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #8 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:17pm:
It also arises out of the practical truth that if the government can take away votes, the next they take might be yours.
The authority to decide who votes resides with the states, which makes it impossible in the U.S. to say "the government" can decide who votes.

The government of your state can decide who in your state can vote.

A more pressing and real concern is, does the national Party system of legalized partisan politics decide who can be on the ballot?

Letting every human in the world vote in elections won't have much effect one way or another if the only candidates that are "viable" are those chosen by the TwoParties, or by Putin or by the CPC.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #9 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:40pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
As corrupt as governments get sometimes, why allow them to take away any rights? Better to improve government(s) by using legislation(s) to regulate said government(s).
Legislators enact legislation.

You ask that they be allowed to govern themselves.

That's a very bad idea.

Dictators govern themselves.
  
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