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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights (Read 201 times)
lksalksa123
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:39am
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     This is a challenging question.  The idea of inalienable rights applies to all, yet there are some crimes so heinous that one would not want certain individuals electing officials.  For instance, what if sex offenders could vote and then state officials started enacting laws to lighten sentences for these crimes? What if tens of thousands of pedophiles supported candidates that strove to decriminalize pedophilia?  What if enough pressure from tens of thousands of criminals was put on politicians that they lightened up on crime?  These are certainly not situations most people want to be in.  One big problem though is that there are so many felons that have not committed heinous crimes, especially when it comes to drug possession.  Also, many people simply do something stupid when they are young and turn out to be model citizens in the end.  Perhaps we should only ban citizens from voting if they have committed theft and/or violent crimes; there is no easy way to answer the question.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:45am
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lksalksa123 wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:39am:
     One big problem though is that there are so many felons that have not committed heinous crimes, especially when it comes to drug possession.

My opinion is that convicted violent felons should lose the vote permanently, but as I said, it's up to the states to decide.

If the people of Florida want convicted felons to have the vote, they can give it to them.

Then we can watch and see if it has any bad results.

One thing that makes it a hard question is the loose definition of "felony"-

https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/felony/

Basically, it's whatever a legislature has decided is serious enough to be called a felony.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #12 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 9:35am
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lksalksa123 wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:39am:
     This is a challenging question...   Perhaps we should only ban citizens from voting if they have committed theft and/or violent crimes; there is no easy way to answer the question.

Yes, the waters get murky.

It's too difficult and time-consuming to screen felon voters based on the severity of their crime.

A one-size-fits-all measure is best. 

Felons can't vote.      So simple!
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:15pm
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lksalksa123 wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 6:39am:
     This is a challenging question.  The idea of inalienable rights applies to all, yet there are some crimes so heinous that one would not want certain individuals electing officials.  For instance, what if sex offenders could vote and then state officials started enacting laws to lighten sentences for these crimes? What if tens of thousands of pedophiles supported candidates that strove to decriminalize pedophilia?  What if enough pressure from tens of thousands of criminals was put on politicians that they lightened up on crime?  These are certainly not situations most people want to be in.  One big problem though is that there are so many felons that have not committed heinous crimes, especially when it comes to drug possession.  Also, many people simply do something stupid when they are young and turn out to be model citizens in the end.  Perhaps we should only ban citizens from voting if they have committed theft and/or violent crimes; there is no easy way to answer the question.


You’re on the right track, new member!

Let me explain something I call “Sack’s Razor.”  When a question of law or policy is challenging, choose the.  option requires the least government, as in the least taxes, the least actions by government officials and the least expenditure of government money. 

So in the case of voter rights, simply allow everyone to vote and use the simplest possible system to verify that each person can only vote once.  Anything else requires paperwork, enforcement personnel to make sure the paper work is completed, auditors to make sure the enforcers are doing their jobs and growing numbers of support staff such as janitors and security.  The computers, communications equipment and surveilence will also drive up the costs and mistakes that cost people the right to vote will be frequent. 

In their very first election, the Iraqis made sure no one voted twice using little jars of purple ink.

The problems of armed robbers voting to legalize armed robbery and so forth will not be an issue since non-armed robbers outnumber armed robbers by huge majorities in almost every city except perhaps Chicago (or DC, if you count taxes as armed robbers).  No politician will run on a platform of legalizing any kind of child abuse no matter whether offenders are allowed to vote or not.

No one should be government by a government in which he has no say, no matter where he was born.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:15pm:
So in the case of voter rights, simply allow everyone to vote and use the simplest possible system to verify that each person can only vote once.
What system would that be Red?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #15 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:32pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
What system would that be Red?


Read the whole post, Non-absolute . . .

  

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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #16 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:54pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:32pm:
Read the whole post, Non-absolute . . .

Ah, follow the Iraqi lead and use some sort of indelible ink to mark people when they vote. Good plan.

Somebody will claim it violates their constitutional rights for some reason.

Edit: You're OK with non-citizens voting for our representatives, or citizens from a safely Democratic district slipping over to vote in a district where it looks like a Libertarian might win, so the Libertarian loses?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:02am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Ah, follow the Iraqi lead and use some sort of indelible ink to mark people when they vote. Good plan.

Somebody will claim it violates their constitutional rights for some reason.

Edit: You're OK with non-citizens voting for our representatives, or citizens from a safely Democratic district slipping over to vote in a district where it looks like a Libertarian might win, so the Libertarian loses?


I’m ok with non-citizens who live here voting since they are paying taxes and I don’t believe in taxation without representation.  I also believe that being born someplace doesn’t magically confer rights that no one else has.

I’m not ok with people from other areas voting for “my” representative, be they Dems, Reps or Ross Perot disciples.  I wouldn’t spend too much resources trying to stop that, though.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 1:48pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:02am:
I’m ok with non-citizens who live here voting...
How will you separate them from non-citizens here on vacation? Or non-citizens who are here illegally and neither working or paying taxes?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Florida Ballot Measure Restores Felon Voting Rights
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:02am:
I’m not ok with people from other areas voting for “my” representative, be they Dems, Reps or Ross Perot disciples.  I wouldn’t spend too much resources trying to stop that, though.
That's good that you don't approve, but do you see how easy it would be to do under the inkspot system? A Party willing to steal elections could easily have enough of their people vote in close districts where they didn't live so they could win the House and the Senate and the Presidency.
  
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