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SkyChief
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Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Oct 14th, 2018 at 1:53pm
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George Washington and Thomas Jefferson voted YES.      A long time ago.

America's best years were when we distanced ourselves from foreign conflicts (pre WW I).

By the  US getting involved in foreign conflicts, it has cost countless Trillions of dollars, and more importantly, 631,000+ US servicemen's lives since the Civil War.     Not to mention the millions of wounded.

Any libertarians here think we should continue down the treacherous path towards globalism?

Or is it time to heed our forefather's advice, and steer clear of entanglement into foreign affairs?



"Let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce" - Thomas Jefferson



  
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The Opposition
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #1 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 2:51pm
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I think that without competition between groups, altruism would never have evolved, or will pass away.

I also wish I didn't have to feel so guilty for all the bullshit my country does to other countries.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #2 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 4:36pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
I also wish I didn't have to feel so guilty for all the bullshit my country does to other countries.
It's been a condition of life for a large part of humanity throughout history to have to put up with their governments starting wars and joining in them.

The are currently a lot of countries doing a lot worse things than is the U.S.

I don't think there are any large scale organized genocides going on right now. I think China finished up with the one they had going.

Not that bad behavior is excused by worse behavior.

Ask Red about feelings of guilt for the actions of others being a mental disorder. It sounds like one to me...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #3 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:10pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 4:36pm:
It's been a condition of life for a large part of humanity throughout history to have to put up with their governments starting wars and joining in them.

The are currently a lot of countries doing a lot worse things than is the U.S.
So the best policy is what?

Jeff wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 4:36pm:
I don't think there are any large scale organized genocides going on right now. I think China finished up with the one they had going.
If there were, should the US use its military might to intervene?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #4 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:15pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
I also wish I didn't have to feel so guilty for all the bullshit my country does to other countries.
Why would you feel guilt for what your country does to other countries?

It's not like you have any say in the matter.

Foreign policy is made by a small handful of powerful politicians, and an even smaller handful of Deep State puppeteers who move their strings. 

Shouldn't they be the ones to feel guilt?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #5 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:18pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:10pm:
So the best policy is what?

For now? This isn't the America or the world of Washington and Jefferson, far from it, but you think their foreign policy ideas are still the best? That's why you keep quoting them?

I tend to think having six aircraft carrier attack groups and nuclear subs, both attack and missile, a good defensive air force and missile defense, with a few ways to deliver lots of cruise missiles would be enough. And I would bring home all our troops and close all the embassies so we wouldn't need troops to defend them. And leave the UN and boot them out. No more soldiering under UN flags.

That would do I think.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:10pm:
If there were, should the US use its military might to intervene?
Where's a moralistic poster when you need one, someone to ask, would it be moral to stand by and watch a mass murderer when you could stop it?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #7 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
For now? This isn't the America or the world of Washington and Jefferson, far from it, but you think their foreign policy ideas are still the best? That's why you keep quoting them?

Yep.

The world has become much smaller because of transportation technology, but Washington and Jefferson's principle of non-intervention applies as well today as it did 200 years ago.


Jeff wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
I tend to think having six aircraft carrier attack groups and nuclear subs, both attack and missile, a good defensive air force and missile defense, with a few ways to deliver lots of cruise missiles would be enough...
So you buy into the notion that the US must be the Policemen of the world?

“If our Founding Fathers wanted us to care about the rest of the world, they wouldn't have declared their independence from it.”
- Stephen Colbert
  
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Jeff
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #8 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 6:08pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:26pm:
So you buy into the notion that the US must be the Policemen of the world?

No, that's just what I think we need for a reasonable defense of the U.S.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Isolationism - Good Policy Or Bad?
Reply #9 - Oct 14th, 2018 at 6:17pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:26pm:
The world has become much smaller because of transportation technology, but Washington and Jefferson's principle of non-intervention applies as well today as it did 200 years ago.
As I recall, Washington sent out ambassadors to seek to form military alliances to help win the Revolutionary War.

Jefferson served in the Continental Congress, and he didn't make speeches about not getting "entangled" with France when they agreed to help us.

Of course once France sold us the Louisiana Purchase (Napoleon did anyway), then the idea became to get all the European powers out of the Americas and kiss them goodbye.

And of course Jefferson commissioned a small fleet of frigates and made war on the Barbary Coast tribes, even sending marines ashore. Boots on the ground! Shocked
  
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