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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator (Read 851 times)
Jeff
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #10 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
What I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times.

What I want has nothing to do with what's right.
As I keep telling you, I noticed that right off.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #11 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:43pm:
As I keep telling you, I noticed that right off.


So do you get that I'm trying to follow what's right, and ignore what I want?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 7:08am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:54pm:
So do you get that I'm trying to follow what's right, and ignore what I want?
That's not how it seems to me.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #13 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:34pm:
It's such a transparent attempt to equate theft by 'democracy' in a very small group with legal taxation by a legally constituted government that it's just ludicrous.

People in a stalled elevator might decide to steal the M&Ms and distribute them evenly. So what? Some on this forum have said that the person who owned the M&Ms would have the right to pull out their concealed handgun and shoot the people who voted to steal their M&Ms... That's probably what actually happened!

Did you read the Chief's answer?

Not that it matters, since you are equating even a legal government with a gang of thugs.

What happened to your desire for an authoritarian government? You didn't give it up did you? You just see anarchy as a way to create opportunities for tyrants to take over, as I do.


What's the moral difference between a legal government and a gang of thugs, if they both take private property for redistribution?

A bunch of slaveowners sign a paper that enshrines their right to own slaves and to steal from free people and all of a sudden it's moral?

Hm.  Maybe when government puts its hand in my pocket, they are just being romantic like Jefferson with his fourteen year old slave.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #14 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 3:09pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 2:42pm:
What's the moral difference between a legal government and a gang of thugs, if they both take private property for redistribution?


For redistribution? Not much, just that the government steals money for redistribution under color of law, at least in the U.S.

I understand some governments have authorized themselves to redistribute money...

You know there are a lot of governments that write their own constitutions and change them at will and the people have no voice in it at all?
  
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #15 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 3:28pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 3:09pm:
For redistribution? Not much, just that the government steals money for redistribution under color of law, at least in the U.S


Taking my money and educating your kids with it is redistribution. 

Quote:
I understand some governments have authorized themselves to redistribute money...

You know there are a lot of governments that write their own constitutions and change them at will and the people have no voice in it at all?


Yes, we have it here in the U.S.


  

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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #16 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:02pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
Taking my money and educating your kids with it is redistribution. 





How so? Explain it to me, thanks.

As you know, I think legal taxation can be used morally for a small number of things, and those are mostly things mentioned in the enumerated powers.

They are separate things, the taxing and the spending. Edit: And state governments have broader powers than does the federal government.

Illegal taxes can raise revenue that can be spent to accomplish the legitimate purposes of government.

Taxing the people in a community fairly and with their approval to accomplish a goal that virtually everybody in the community thinks is something that should be done, is not redistribution of wealth in my mind.

Explain how it is that you think so differently, so that I can learn. Thanks.
  
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #17 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:07pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
Yes, we have it here in the U.S.


Due to the Progressive Era FDR abuse of the Constitution?

I agree with you on this, that's exactly what happened, the government rewrote the Constitution to give them unlimited powers.

Once again in America, the World Turned Upside Down... The second time in the wrong direction. Cry
  
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #18 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:29pm
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Snarky Sack wrote Today at 3:28pm:
Quote:
Taking my money and educating your kids with it is redistribution.


Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:02pm:
How so? Explain it to me, thanks.


As you know, I think legal taxation can be used morally for a small number of things, and those are mostly things mentioned in the enumerated powers.

They are separate things, the taxing and the spending. Edit: And state governments have broader powers than does the federal government.

Illegal taxes can raise revenue that can be spent to accomplish the legitimate purposes of government.

Taxing the people in a community fairly and with their approval to accomplish a goal that virtually everybody in the community thinks is something that should be done, is not redistribution of wealth in my mind.

Explain how it is that you think so differently, so that I can learn. Thanks.


The free market distributed the money I earn to me.  When government takes some that money and gives it to contractors to build a school, maintenance staff, teachers, administrators and vendors that  redistributes the money in a way contrary to the workings of the free market.

It also redistributes the wealth of education to those whose parents are either unwilling or unable to purchase it on the free market.

I understand you don't believe that education is wealth.  I find that absurd.  If an 18 year old inherits one hundred thousand dollars, the very best investment of that money is a college education or vocational training in a field in which they can realistically expect to make money.


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Re: Five People are Stranded on a Stalled Elevator
Reply #19 - Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:34pm
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Jeff wrote Today at 3:09pm:

Quote:
I understand some governments have authorized themselves to redistribute money...

You know there are a lot of governments that write their own constitutions and change them at will and the people have no voice in it at all?


Snarky Sack wrote Today at 3:28pm:
Quote:
Yes, we have it here in the U.S.


Jeff wrote on Oct 21st, 2018 at 5:07pm:
Due to the Progressive Era FDR abuse of the Constitution?

I agree with you on this, that's exactly what happened, the government rewrote the Constitution to give them unlimited powers.

Once again in America, the World Turned Upside Down... The second time in the wrong direction. Cry


Now, Jeff.

I know it's almost November, so you and your statist buddies are getting all geeked up about how it's either the Demonic Dems or the Rascally Republicans.  America was a  paradise until the New Deal, blah, blah.

Washington belonged to no party whatsoever and he consulted no one but a Supreme Court justice when he rode against citizens who saw that the representative government was a scheme to rob them and refused to play along.  That was well before the New Deal.


  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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