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The Opposition
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The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Oct 20th, 2018 at 2:01pm
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This is a hypothetical.

The earth is flat, and extends infinitely in a roughly two-dimensional plane.

There is infinite land.

Some land is unusable, but some is fertile. Go far enough and you'll find more fertile land.

If you don't like how a society treats you, all that is required is the right of exit and everyone's problems are solved.

There are no more debates about what is right and what is wrong to do to others in a society, because if anyone doesn't like it, they really can leave.

The worker can no longer rail against what he thinks is a low minimum wage. He's not a permanent tenant. He can go claim land, work it, and eek out a living. If that ends up being better, then maybe the minimum wage was too low, indicating that most of the businesses' profits arose from merely holding land and not supreme market forecasting or managerial excellence.

The resident population cannot complain about immigration. If they don't like it, they can pack up and move.

Those who don't like taxes can move away from them.

Infinite land really means infinite diversity in infinite combinations, as far as ideology goes. No more squabbling over what the rules should be. Pick your own. There are infinite choices.

People who don't want to control others are going to be very unhappy.

People who just don't want to be controlled will be rolling around on the ground with pure joy.

It won't matter whether you're a Statist or a Libertarian.

My theory is that it'll be libertarians who become very unhappy.

People like Thermie, who actually want to live and let live, will be the happy ones.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Reply #1 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 2:01pm:
People who just don't want to be controlled will be rolling around on the ground with pure joy...

..My theory is that it'll be libertarians who become very unhappy.

Yes, because libertarians will be constantly being forced to flee tyrannical governments.

Well-established libertarian communities will be infiltrated by statists who will want to impose taxes and wealth re-distribution.  They will make Laws that infringe on natural rights.

How could anyone be happy with that?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Reply #2 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 2:01pm:
This is a hypothetical.

The earth is flat, and extends infinitely in a roughly two-dimensional plane.

There is infinite land.

Some land is unusable, but some is fertile. Go far enough and you'll find more fertile land.

If you don't like how a society treats you, all that is required is the right of exit and everyone's problems are solved.

Have you ever read Larry Niven's Ringworld?

Imagine walking across a 1000 mile wide desert, then, if you live, finding that others have beat you to it and homesteaded the fertile land, and they shoot you on sight or make you their slave!

Don't despair, I'm making good progress on my teleportation/time machine. Currently, I'm looking for more volunteers to send wherever it is the volunteers keep going... Since nobody has yet returned, we're not sure where they go, but some of the theorists working on the project are talking about infinity... So wherever you end up, you'll probably like it! Kiss
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Reply #3 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:51pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:04pm:
Yes, because libertarians will be constantly being forced to flee tyrannical governments.

Well-established libertarian communities will be infiltrated by statists who will want to impose taxes and wealth re-distribution.  They will make Laws that infringe on natural rights.

How could anyone be happy with that?


As long as there is more fertile land, I would always be happy to live in a wagon, pack up my seeds and my stores, and move on. This is basically how your species lived for most of history.

I could live by all the aggressive, Statist rules I wanted out in nowhere, like having a chicken. When libertarians came in to build residences and declare my chicken ownership aggressive and wrong, I would just move along.

There would be no reason to allow any infiltration and rule changes on behalf of newcomers. If the newcomers aren't happy with the rules there are, they too can simply make their own way.

My point is about how infinite land really changes the game. You can't argue that it doesn't. There are no permanent tenants.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Reply #4 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 8:06pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:51pm:
As long as there is more fertile land, I would always be happy to live in a wagon, pack up my seeds and my stores, and move on.
Do it then. What's holding you back? Maybe you live in a world where the government owns all the land and they'll shoot you if they catch you on it?

"...live in a wagon..." Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Earth Is Flat: An Infinite Plane
Reply #5 - Oct 20th, 2018 at 8:08pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 7:51pm:
My point is about how infinite land really changes the game. You can't argue that it doesn't.
Who would be foolish enough to claim that infinite land wouldn't be something exceptionally different than any known reality?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Edit: Hey, when you get into all that infinite land, you can have infinite chickens! Smiley What could be better!
  
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