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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media (Read 474 times)
Jeff
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #30 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:24am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 11:51pm:
You do when it's a business. You're absolutely against forcing YouTube to remain politically neutral.

I admit, I place rights of freedom of conscience, speech and religion pretty high, but I don't just apply them to business owners. All individuals have those rights, and they are not absolute rights either, although they are pretty close.

Free political speech is however essential to the preservation of any liberty.
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #31 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 5:54pm:
But when it's a business, you go right back to absolute rights again.
No, the rights of business owners are no more absolute than any other individuals rights, but you don't lose rights by having a business.
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #32 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:35am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 11:51pm:
You're okay with a philosophy that's constructed to let "everyone" have all these rights, precisely because you know regular people won't be able to assert theirs, and you can just go, "oh well they should have hired a better private security company  Grin."
I actually think police powers should be a monopoly of government, (You should know that, I've said it often enough) but I also strongly believe in the right to be armed in self defense, or to hire private security if you can afford to and think you need it. Form a neighborhood co-op to hire private security if you can't afford it individually. Be creative.

As far as being shut out of expressing your political views, only governments can do that.

Free political speech existed before Facebook and will still be around (government permitting) when Facebook is history.

The great danger here is an admission that the government has power to regulate political speech at all.

If you grant that government has power to require the owners of Facebook to make their forum "politically neutral", then you can't deny that the power exists to make private fora follow a one Party line.
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #33 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:36am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
You were going to tell us about "a bunch" of rights that are unworkable...

"You have a bunch of rights that are completely unworkable in the real world..."

The lizard
Where's the list?
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #34 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:22pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:36am:
Where's the list?


Where's yours?

Jeff wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:35am:
As far as being shut out of expressing your political views, only governments can do that.


That's objectively incorrect. You believe that anyone may shut out views on their own property or platforms, so it's possible for views to be entirely squashed by private property owners, if all the property is in the hands of the PC. Think it through.

You've never objected to forcing YouTube to be politically neutral on practical results; you object on absolute rights, and you have a flawless case.

But when it comes time to look at the rights of anyone who isn't a big business, well then, exceptions just have to be made, according to you. Absolute rights are for the jungle, you've said.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #35 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
That's objectively incorrect. You believe that anyone may shut out views on their own property or platforms, so it's possible for views to be entirely squashed by private property owners, if all the property is in the hands of the PC. Think it through.

The only way that will ever happen is if government grants a monopoly on expression to the PC. That's why government regulation of speech in any way is so dangerous, because it can grant monopolies to the PC, or to libertarians...

Stay off of my property. Go express your tyrannical views elsewhere. Don't ask me to provide a platform for what I think is evil.

Absolutely do not require me to provide a platform for what I think is evil.
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #36 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
The only way that will ever happen is if government grants a monopoly on expression to the PC.


That's also false. It's happening now because they're buying the universities, and they're buying the platforms.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #37 - Oct 29th, 2018 at 6:56am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
That's also false. It's happening now because they're buying the universities, and they're buying the platforms.
And you want the government to stop "them" and decide who should be allowed to own the "platforms"?

Are state and city universities being sold? That would probably be a good idea!

Since you're working on that list of rights you think are completely unworkable (I couldn't think of any, so I can't make a list) you should also make a list of monopolies that have existed without government help... I can't think of any of them either.
  
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #38 - Oct 29th, 2018 at 9:39pm
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The list is supposed to consist of what each poster thinks is bad enough for the act to be met with force, and the force to be justified.

Hitting, stealing.

There's mine. Where's yours?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: SCOTUS To Rule On 1st Amendment Case Regarding Social Media
Reply #39 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:42am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 29th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
The list is supposed to consist of what each poster thinks is bad enough for the act to be met with force, and the force to be justified.

Hitting, stealing.

There's mine. Where's yours?
It's appropriate to meet force with force, but the law says the force you use must be proportionate, except for the exceptions, like where feeble old ladies are justified in shooting powerful young men who attack them, even if the attacker is unarmed. (I've told you this before...)

Using force to prevent theft is appropriate. If having your camel stolen means you will almost certainly die in the desert, using force, even deadly force, to prevent the theft of your camel is appropriate. In most cases of theft, using deadly force is not appropriate, although it's fine to try to catch and restrain the thief and turn him/her/it over to the police. (I've told you this before too.)

In time of war, the rules concerning the use of force are different.

What are you really looking for here lizard? A claim that it's appropriate for governments to use force to require certain types of political speech?, or to ban certain types of political speech? It's not. In the U.S. as you know, the government is prohibited from doing that.

Are you looking for justification for using force against someone who won't let you use their platform to air you views?

Isn't that the crux of the case before the S.Ct. that the force of government should be used to control what is said or not said on social media?
  
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