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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Do Animals Have Governments? (Read 119 times)
Jeff
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #10 - Nov 1st, 2018 at 1:19pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 1st, 2018 at 9:43am:
Snarky Sack wrote Today at 9:35am:


Really?

When the government of the U.S.A was created, the majority of the people enjoyed freedom, safety and prosperity?

That's your actual claim?


Here it comes again! Many of the new states still hadn't outlawed slavery, which negates everything else. Right?

I'll just stay with, no, animals don't have governments.


  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #11 - Nov 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 1st, 2018 at 1:19pm:
Here it comes again! Many of the new states still hadn't outlawed slavery, which negates everything else. Right?

I'll just stay with, no, animals don't have governments.




So, you admit that the U.S. wasn’t free at the time the constitution was ratified. 

When did it become a country in which the majority of the people enjoyed the freedom, safety and prosperity of a representative republic?
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #12 - Nov 1st, 2018 at 7:27pm
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Many of the American colonies permitted slavery, and England hadn't forced them to free their slaves, which Parliament could have done.

When they became independent States, there was no one to force them to give up slavery. The Articles of Confederation did not grant the federal government any power to abolish slavery.

The slave states refused to join the Union under the Constitution, refused to even consider ratifying the Constitution, unless their slaves were granted a place in obtaining more representation in the House for the slave states than they were otherwise entitled to.

So no, obviously there were States that protected the institution of slavery before the Constitution was even created, and the Constitution did not give the federal government the power to outlaw slavery by any means other than a Constitutional Amendment which the slave states would have blocked.

Of course under your theory, the very first S.Ct. should have re-interpreted the Constitution and held that the "general welfare" clause outlawed slavery, but the S.Ct. had not yet gone that far off the rails of the law.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #13 - Nov 1st, 2018 at 7:37pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm:
When did it become a country in which the majority of the people enjoyed the freedom, safety and prosperity of a representative republic?
It was that from the beginning. Slaves were never a majority in the U.S.

The real benefits to the majority began after the War of 1812, when England finally admitted that the U.S. was an equal nation among equals.

And as you know, it took continued pressure leading to a bloody war and a Constitutional Amendment to finally legally end slavery in the U.S.

I'm not sure exactly when all the laws in the U.S. finally stopped discriminating against black people, but I know it took at least some reliance on calling out the National Guard... perhaps the last discriminatory state and local laws were finally abolished sometime in the 1960s?
  
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #14 - Nov 1st, 2018 at 11:41pm
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Ants have a monarchy/communist government.

Apes tend to have a dominant alpha dictatorship rule.

So Yes,,, animals DO have Governments.

Crude by human standards, but governments nonetheless.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Do Animals Have Governments?
Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2018 at 8:55am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 1st, 2018 at 11:41pm:
Ants have a monarchy/communist government.

Apes tend to have a dominant alpha dictatorship rule.

So Yes,,, animals DO have Governments.

Crude by human standards, but governments nonetheless. 
The Queen bee governs the hive, but their is no Bee government, the governing is done by instinct developed by evolution to allow bees to survive.

Alpha males (or females) often exercise some degree of control over the troop/pride/pack. but there is no Ape government or Lion government or Wolf government.

The word government has more than just one narrow meaning, and the meanings are not all the same and can't be used interchangeably.

How bees are governed is not anything like how Americans have chosen to be governed.

One is not a government, the other is.
  
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