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SkyChief
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Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Nov 2nd, 2018 at 8:45pm
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I would have guessed that Ron Paul would want the 14,000-man Caravan to be allowed to apply for asylum in the US.

Not so.  He is adamantly against it - called it "Organized Cultural Marxism" likely funded by George Soros.

However, Dr. Paul said that the use of the US Military was a bad idea because the Caravan marchers are not armed, and there's a high chance for deadly force to be used against asylum-seekers.

He opposes all global militarization.

  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2018 at 9:46pm
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He's choosing a pragmatic approach when there's zero pragmatism in his position. You don't win any supporters by being just slightly more Libertarian than a diehard Republican. You will lose supporters to the Republicans.

All the dissembling about preventing the problem is also hurting them.

They also claim these migrants shouldn't be able to walk so far, so quickly, without help. Well, they're not fat, lazy, worthless American layabouts who have to fear for their jobs when illiterate immigrants come for them. That's how.

Border Patrol shouldn't be involved.

There is only one right position: The Libertarian Party position. I'm disappointed in Ron Paul.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #2 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:32am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 9:46pm:
He's choosing a pragmatic approach when there's zero pragmatism in his position. You don't win any supporters by being just slightly more Libertarian than a diehard Republican. You will lose supporters to the Republicans.

All the dissembling about preventing the problem is also hurting them.

They also claim these migrants shouldn't be able to walk so far, so quickly, without help. Well, they're not fat, lazy, worthless American layabouts who have to fear for their jobs when illiterate immigrants come for them. That's how.

Border Patrol shouldn't be involved.

There is only one right position: The Libertarian Party position. I'm disappointed in Ron Paul.
It's hard to make sense of this incoherent rant other than that you hold Americans in particularly high contempt, which is nothing new for you.

Anyway, why do you say there is "zero pragmatism" in Paul's position?

There aren't that many libertarians that support open borders. Most libertarians support rational reform of our immigration laws, not open borders. Dr. Paul seems to be pretty much in line with mainstream libertarians with his current position, which I suspect is in line with the beliefs of the majority of Americans, Democratic Socialists and anarchists and ignorant children being the exceptions.

Edit: The LP has less than a million members, of which fewer than 15,000 donate money to the Party. Besides being stuck with legalizing drugs and sex as their primary objectives (or so I have to believe from their public statements) I think their advocacy of open borders and anarchic statement that "taxes are theft" is what keeps them so incredibly small and prevents them from having much influence at all anywhere.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #3 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 11:48am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:32am:
There aren't that many libertarians that support open borders.

The Libertarian Party does:

"Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

https://www.lp.org/platform/
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #4 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 12:33pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 11:48am:
The Libertarian Party does:

"Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

https://www.lp.org/platform/
Well, they are speaking of "human capital" in the context of economic freedom rather than just humans, which could be taken to mean that if you are offered a job in the U.S., you should be allowed to come here and take it, but I think most people just believe they mean open borders, and I keep saying that's one of the reasons not many people support the LP.

There is also the context of political freedom and escape from tyranny, which probably applies to hundreds of millions if not billions of people who would come here if they could...
  
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Some Voluntaryist
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 1:52pm
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Yeah? Ron Paul is a statist, of course he would have some statist positions.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 2:19pm
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Some Voluntaryist wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 1:52pm:
Yeah? Ron Paul is a statist, of course he would have some statist positions.

statist
stādist  (noun)

an advocate of a political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs.

Ron Paul advocates:

• "End the Fed" (Federal Reserve bank)

• Abolish IRS (end Income Tax)

• End wealth redistribution.

• Strong limitations of Government (in power and scope)

• Gold and Silver coins are money.   FRNs are unsecured IOUs.

• Abolish Social Security (unconstitutional)

• End wars of aggression and entangling alliances with other nations.

• Judges were never given [a] right to direct the trial by "instructing" the jury.

How could Ron Paul be any more anti-statist?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #7 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 3:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 2:19pm:
statist
stādist  (noun)

an advocate of a political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs.

Ron Paul advocates:

• "End the Fed" (Federal Reserve bank)


The Federal Reserve is a private business. I think it's a good thing that our money is privatised, because I think everything should be privatised. As Jeff points out, no one is forcing you to use dollars.

It should be called the Private Reserve to ameliorate confusion, and it's something libertarians should be crying out for if it didn't already exist. I, for one, am glad it does.

Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:32am:
It's hard to make sense of this incoherent rant other than that you hold Americans in particularly high contempt, which is nothing new for you.


There's no contempt in it. I am stating facts. Americans are so incompetent that they have to fear for their jobs when illiterate immigrants cross the border. I'm certain that there is no native-born American anywhere who does his job well enough that an illiterate immigrant could not take it from him.

This state of affairs is sad, not detestable. It's a result of the government engaging in such rampant anti-immigration protectionism that Americans have lost the ability to be productive at all.

The solution is to allow open immigration so that such a population can be replaced with competent workers so prosperity can ensue.

The best worker will get the job. Who could be against that?

Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:32am:
Anyway, why do you say there is "zero pragmatism" in Paul's position?


Because it departs from pure Libertarianism but accomplishes nothing. It's likely to lose him support, rather than gain it. If your aim is to be Republicanism-lite, you're aiming to be second banana to the Republicans.

The solution is to stick to principles. Let the other parties compromise principles for support. That's what they're best at.

Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:32am:
There aren't that many libertarians that support open borders.


Correct.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #8 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 4:54pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 3:34pm:
The Federal Reserve is a private business.
It's a crony monopoly, the State's own private State Bank.

Crony State State does not equal private business.

When you start with what is basically a lie (as you often do), everything that follows is worthless.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #9 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 4:54pm:
It's a crony monopoly, the State's own private State Bank.

Crony State State does not equal private business.

When you start with what is basically a lie (as you often do), everything that follows is worthless.


It's not a lie. The Federal Reserve is not part of the government. It is an extra-governmental private business.

No one is forcing you to use their dollars. Print your own currency if you like. No one is forcing people not to take your IOUs.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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