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SkyChief
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #10 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 5:41pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 3:34pm:
The Federal Reserve is a private business. I think it's a good thing that our money is privatised, because I think everything should be privatised. As Jeff points out, no one is forcing you to use dollars.

Some places no longer accept Federal Reserve Notes as Legal Tender for all debts public and private.

This poor fellow tries to make a mortgage payment with cash... Lakeport, California B of A Manager says  "We no longer accept those here".   Grin    Grin    Grin

  
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #11 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:01pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 5:41pm:
Some places no longer accept Federal Reserve Notes as Legal Tender for all debts public and private.

Federal law says they are legal tender for all debts, which means they have to accept them...

Did the latest massive financial regulatory law exempt banks from what everyone else is forced to do?

More Wonderland crap? Cheesy
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #12 - Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:01pm:
Federal law says they are legal tender for all debts, which means they have to accept them...


Does it? Or does the money just say that?

You argued against the idea that anyone is forced to use dollars. You were right.

But now you flip-flop of course.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #13 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 6:54am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 6:37pm:
Does it? Or does the money just say that?

You argued against the idea that anyone is forced to use dollars. You were right.

But now you flip-flop of course.
USC Sect. 5103.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5103


Borrowing money to buy property incurs a debt to whoever you borrowed the money from, in this case a bank. The law says you can legally tender FRNs as payment for all debts.

Apparently there is no obligation to accept the FRNs, but there is no obligation as far as I know to accept anything that is offered.

If I loan you $20 in FRNs and you offer me $20 (plus interest) in FRNs as repayment, and I refuse to accept your offer to repay the debt, as far as I can reason, I've just turned the loan into a gift to you. Smiley

It seems odd that Congress would have had to pass a law saying that you can legally offer FRNs as payment of a debt... What would have made it illegal before the law was enacted? You could offer the bank seashells as payment if you wanted to...

What's really going on with the banks is that they don't want to deal in FRNs in physical form, sometimes called "cash". They want you to electronically transfer FRNs from your account to theirs.

Unless your loan from the bank specifies that they will only accept repayment in electronically transferred FRNs, I think you could take in your payment in cash and offer it to them. Take a friend along and make a video of you counting out the money and giving it to a teller with instructions that it's your mortgage payment and wait to see what happens. It could be an interesting court case.

Check the fine print in your loan agreement first.

Banks want to go "cashless" because it saves them money. Governments want everyone to go "cashless" because it enables them to track every expenditure or receipt that anybody makes.

Anyway, whether you pay in physical FRNs or a check or an EFT, you are still paying in FRNs, and I maintain I am correct in that if you borrow FRNs (in whatever form) you can tender FRNs as repayment and legally they must be accepted as payment.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #14 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 9:27am
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Here's some commentary and history related to legal tender laws, and a link to the first Supreme Court opinion on their legality-

http://csinvesting.org/2015/12/30/monetary-history-should-legal-tender-laws-be-a...

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/75/603/
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #15 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:59am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 4th, 2018 at 6:54am:
If I loan you $20 in FRNs and you offer me $20 (plus interest) in FRNs as repayment, and I refuse to accept your offer to repay the debt, as far as I can reason, I've just turned the loan into a gift to you. Smiley


That bank disagrees.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul Takes Unexpected Position On Caravan
Reply #16 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 12:22pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:59am:
That bank disagrees.
I think I'd let the courts straighten it out.

Maybe BoA higher ups issued a notice for branches to try to get all their customers to use EFTs exclusively... But who knows for sure.

If I sold my motorcycle and the buyer paid me $1300 in $20 FRNs, I bet BoA would accept them as a deposit into my checking account...

Or maybe it's a fake video.

Edit: I wish the man trying to make payment would have asked "If you won't accept this as payment, how am I required to pay?"
  
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