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Jeff
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #20 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:27pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Only if they believe that voluntary funding of police makes police better at catching thieves by giving them an incentive to catch them. 


All of the police will be bounty hunters?

You didn't tell me that....

You think that's a good idea?
  
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #21 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:34pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:27pm:
All of the police will be bounty hunters?

You didn't tell me that....

You think that's a good idea?


No. 

Why would you think I do?

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #22 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:48pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:34pm:
No. 

Why would you think I do?

IDK, the idea that you just introduced, that police would be bounty hunters, is something I haden't envisioned or thought about. Tell me more about your idea.  Thanks.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #23 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:48pm:
IDK, the idea that you just introduced, that police would be bounty hunters, is something I haden't envisioned or thought about. Tell me more about your idea.  Thanks.


What?  What reply number did I talk about  bounty hunting?

One of us has had a few too many . . .
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #24 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 12:41pm:
Free competition produces benefits for consumers. They end up being offered better products at lower prices. Businesses that provide services are included.

Obviously you don't see the police as being any different than people who provide swimming pool services.


No, I don't, mainly because the only way they're different is that they are a necessary service, and libertarians have explained to me time and again how free competition, even for necessary services, is the best answer.

Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
Won't thieves get hold of the subscription lists and just start robbing people who aren't paying the police?


I expect so. What of it?

I used to have a possum on my property that would eat and/or mangle my chickens. If I wanted it gone I should always do it myself, or pay for the service.

Why should it be different if a Human is on my property, violating said property?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Some Voluntaryist
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #25 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 6:50am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 1:42pm:
EDIT:

Sorry, I just realized that you were responding to Some Voluntaryist, not me.

Carry on . . .




No worries, you just saved me a lot of typing! Grin
  
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Jeff
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #26 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 8:15am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
No, I don't, mainly because the only way they're different is that they are a necessary service, and libertarians have explained to me time and again how free competition, even for necessary services, is the best answer.


One way they are different is that you pay your barber to serve you individually, and the police are paid to serve the entire community.

Probably if you paid your barber to give everyone in the community haircuts, nobody would object...
  
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #27 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 8:19am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
I used to have a possum on my property that would eat and/or mangle my chickens. If I wanted it gone I should always do it myself, or pay for the service.

Why should it be different if a Human is on my property, violating said property?
If a human is on your property, eating and mangling your chickens, there's a good chance the human is rabid... But maybe not...

Shoot the possum, call the police to deal with the human. That's just my advice. Shoot the human if it suits you, but be prepared to be arrested for doing it.
  
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Some Voluntaryist
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #28 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 10:15am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 8:15am:
One way they are different is that you pay your barber to serve you individually, and the police are paid to serve the entire community.


Yes. That's usually why things like police, military, and courts, while they could be done privately, would probably be most popular in the form of Voluntary states. Take this for example:

There's a city in which people typically live under three major states (they may or may not gravitate towards each other as well). Their property is considered part of the state's territory, and the property owners are allowed to secede at any time, or at least when a contract is fulfilled. They act like real governments, provide all the usual services, maintain the roads and whatnot.

But, having three different police forces in the city causes a lot of confusion, and the citizens aren't happy with that. Politicians (if the states are democratic) are worried about getting re-elected, and the states in general are concerned with keeping their citizens, so they start looking for solutions.

In scenario A, all three governments mutually agree to go the easy route, and work out some sort of city-wide cooperative effort to police the city. Off the top of my head (and there's a whole world of solutions that they could have worked out which we aren't even imagining), they could all act as one great police force, and agree to bill each other for any time or resources that one department spends helping another department's citizen. So if a police officer from department A sees a citizen in trouble, they will help them regardless, and after the fact, they just have to figure out which government the citizen lived under, and bill that government's police department. So in the end, the citizens don't have to worry about which police officer is from where. This same solution can work for firefighters as well.

To make scenario A more complicated, let's add the possibility of a niche minority government that refuses to be part of the agreement, and some anarchists who haven't bothered becoming a citizen of any in the city. Well, the departments will have a few options. They can chalk the free riders up to a loss and accept it as it is, they can use the power of negotiation and salesmanship to convince free riders to become a citizen of one of their governments or to convince their niche government to join in the city-wide police alliance or to at least cooperate with it as diplomatically as possible, or they can go back to square one, waste precious time in an emergency making sure everyone they're helping is a citizen, and letting non-citizens die in the streets for all they care. Now I don't know which they'd pick, but my gut says that the third one would turn off a lot of their citizens.

Now in scenario B, the governments decide not to go the route of cooperation, and instead double down on trying to out-compete the others. Since having effectively one police department for the city is high in demand right now, it's only a matter of time until people get fed up and just start gravitating towards whichever government currently has the most citizens, and abandoning their old ones. Each government will obviously want to be the one people gravitate towards, so they actively work to improve their service and adopt as many positive qualities as possible. Eventually, one of them will win out, the other two states declare bankruptcy and get bought out by their rival state, and everyone is happy for the forseeable future.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Short but Powerful Documentary On Privatization of Police
Reply #29 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 12:15pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 8:15am:
One way they are different is that you pay your barber to serve you individually, and the police are paid to serve the entire community.

Probably if you paid your barber to give everyone in the community haircuts, nobody would object...



Would you object if your community voted to require all homeowners to pay into a fund for a public barber shop?  It would be a good way to help unemployed people to maintain good grooming needed for job hunting and it would help keep the community from looking like a hippie commune.

Please state your moral objection to that idea, if any.  Keep in mind that this is not wealth redistribution because haircuts are not wealth, please and thank you.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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