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The Opposition
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #170 - Nov 26th, 2018 at 9:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 9:51am:
You say you're now a libertarian who realizes that adults need to be cared for by the government? Cheesy


I recognise rights, meaning that even if someone isn't competent to make their own choices, they still get to.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Snarky Sack
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #171 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:57am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 7:36pm:
Schedule phys ed for the last period of the day, and make parents of kids who don't want to shower after pick up their kids so they don't stink up the bus.


I guess that's a good way to punish them if that's the goal.   If we don't want to be punitive, we could simply arrange the showers so there is privacy for individuals.  I take at least two showers a day, because I'm not comfortable unless I am clean.  That's well over seven hundred showers a year and I take every one of them with privacy (Mrs. Snark excepted).  I spent years in the army, showering with other soldiers and in those same years lived in Germany enjoying the mixed showers, saunas and locker room in their public venues.  But I still don't want to shower with my colleagues in the mind-science profession.  I'm glad you are not making the rules for me as you want to make them for kids.   

You are horrified at the idea of a genetic male who identifies as a female showering with female students, but you giggle at the idea of that kid being forced to shower with males.  You seem to  see public schools, not as institutions of learning, but as government's first chance to start singling out and attacking anyone who is different.   

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Some children fear speaking to groups. Part of education is helping children to learn to overcome and control their discomfort in all sorts of situations. Children are often cruel to each other for all sorts of reasons, just like adults are often cruel to each other for all sorts of reasons.

I happen to think learning to deal with that fact of the human world should start young, as should learning that physical appearance is not anywhere near the most important characteristic of a human being.



Yikes!

Don't know were to begin on that one . . .

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #172 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:17am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:57am:
I guess that's a good way to punish them if that's the goal.   If we don't want to be punitive, we could simply arrange the showers so there is privacy for individuals.
I'm fine with that. Who decides that schools like this should be built? -

https://www.google.com/search?q=Natick,+MA+high+school&client=firefox-b-1&source...

If they built it with gang showers, don't blame it on a lack of funds.

Just look at the pictures of the new school...
  
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #173 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:21am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:57am:
You are horrified at the idea of a genetic male who identifies as a female showering with female students, but you giggle at the idea of that kid being forced to shower with males.  You seem to  see public schools, not as institutions of learning, but as government's first chance to start singling out and attacking anyone who is different.   
I'm fine with everybody showering together and swimming nude. They can wrestle nude too.

Many (most?) American parents don't think that's a good idea.
  
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #174 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:40am
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Snarky Sack wrote Today at 7:57am:
Quote:
I guess that's a good way to punish them if that's the goal.   If we don't want to be punitive, we could simply arrange the showers so there is privacy for individuals.


Jeff wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:17am:
I'm fine with that. Who decides that schools like this should be built? -

https://www.google.com/search?q=Natick,+MA+high+school&client=firefox-b-1&source...

If they built it with gang showers, don't blame it on a lack of funds.

Just look at the pictures of the new school...


That's exactly right.  The whole, "but what about them showering together?!" is a ridiculous argument.  School districts spend millions and millions of dollars on Taj Mahals that glorify the school board members whose names are on the plaques.  But they don't want to spend a couple of hundred on shower curtains so trans kids can be safe and focus on learning rather than on avoiding getting sexually harassed? 


  

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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #175 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:43am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:21am:
I'm fine with everybody showering together and swimming nude. They can wrestle nude too.

Many (most?) American parents don't think that's a good idea.


Which is why the real answer is to end the practice of robbing people at gunpoint to pay for public schools in which government officials decide everyone's lives for them.  If the government ever stops interfering with education, the Sack Academy of Learning will have individual showers.  Parents who don't want their kids showering with the "other gender" won't have a thing to worry about.
  

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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #176 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:53am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:43am:
Which is why the real answer is to end the practice of robbing people at gunpoint to pay for public schools in which government officials decide everyone's lives for them.  If the government ever stops interfering with education, the Sack Academy of Learning will have individual showers.  Parents who don't want their kids showering with the "other gender" won't have a thing to worry about.
You can't imagine how stupid "the other gender" sounds to me.
  
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #177 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:14am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:43am:
Which is why the real answer is to end the practice of robbing people at gunpoint to pay for public schools in which government officials decide everyone's lives for them.  If the government ever stops interfering with education, the Sack Academy of Learning will have individual showers.  Parents who don't want their kids showering with the "other gender" won't have a thing to worry about.


Exactly.

If some boy, Mary, wants to shower with the girls, and the parents of the girls don't want that, Mary will not be let to.

If Mary's parents don't like that, they can choose another school.

Sensitive types will end up in schools with separate showers. They'll pay a tiny bit extra for a service that is worth it to them.

Everyone might end up in schools with separate showers, precisely because the lowest on the dominance totem pole are always leaving to schools that don't ignore any sort of bullying. This will create a vicious cycle of making the schools that do nothing worse and worse.

What I expect will actually happen, eventually, is that Mary will just have to shower with the boys (because there are probably more trolls pretending to be transgender to harass the girls than actual transgenders; there's this weird phenomenon where the people who need it are not the ones who get loud and insist - those are the ones who don't; meanwhile those who actually need it, just suck it up).

Mary will be protected from harassment, though. Nobody's going to pay good money for a learning environment where children can't learn.

Bobby harasses Mary in the shower. Parents complain. The school chooses Bobby over Mary. Maybe it's three kids teasing her, so they pick three subscriptions over one. Good choice, right? Nope. That school now sucks. Mary is pulled, and those kids harass someone else. That kid is pulled. The three move on.

At Mary's new school, Timmy harasses Mary in the shower and this school expels Timmy, choosing Mary. This school does not suck. More parents are going to send their kids there, to actually learn.

Cesspits for baby chimps to learn how to fling shit at each other will exist, but they won't necessarily cost less and it'll be easy and cheap to send your kid somewhere they can actually learn.

Jeff wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 10:53am:
You can't imagine how stupid "the other gender" sounds to me.


The gender the subject is not? You can't imagine how stupid it sounds to me when you cherrypick, deliberately misinterpret, and insult, because you have no case.

But you win, because public school teaches shit-flinging rather than logic. It caters to the chimps, like you, forcing everyone to understand that you're at the top.

Imagine when people pay for their kids to learn, and get it.

You and those like you will lose all your power.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #178 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:31am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:14am:
Mary will be protected from harassment, though. Nobody's going to pay good money for a learning environment where children can't learn.



Bingo!

Under Jeff's system, people are forced to do exactly that.

  

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Re: How Should Government Deal With Transgender Prisoners?
Reply #179 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 3:33pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:31am:
Bingo!

Under Jeff's system, people are forced to do exactly that.

Don't blame me, blame the takeover of local schools by the federal government.
  
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