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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Remembering the First World War (Read 446 times)
BobK71
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #10 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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It seems to me, the key question to ask is: why did Britain and the US bother with this war?

Germany was not about to take away British and American democracy (such as it was, with no full suffrage.)
  
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JW
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #11 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 3:07pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
It seems to me, the key question to ask is: why did Britain and the US bother with this war?

Germany was not about to take away British and American democracy (such as it was, with no full suffrage.)


Going from memory- We had mutual defense treaties with France.  Germany had them with Austria.  There was an alignment to two sets of mutual defense treaties involving maybe 30 countries.  So when some Serbian militant offed an Austrian duke, we ended up with US against Germany.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #12 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 5:55pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
It seems to me, the key question to ask is: why did Britain and the US bother with this war?

The English King who ruled Great Britain had made commitments to his cousins and other Royals who were willing to send their young men off to war to support whichever Empire of whatever King or Emperor or Tsar. Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

Wilson dreamed of making the whole world into the one world nation he though America should be.

I think he was a Presbyterian politician with unfounded dreams of grandeur and a typical "progressive" utopian vision.

The principles Wilson based his actions on have been tested and proven defective, and should be abandoned on the dust heap of history, right lizard?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #13 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 5:56pm
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JW wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Going from memory- We had mutual defense treaties with France.
No, we didn't. You must be remembering some other alliance.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 10:35am
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JW wrote on Nov 15th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Going from memory- We had mutual defense treaties with France.  Germany had them with Austria.  There was an alignment to two sets of mutual defense treaties involving maybe 30 countries.  So when some Serbian militant offed an Austrian duke, we ended up with US against Germany.


If 'we' means the UK, possibly.  Though the official reason given by the UK for joining the war was to protect the right to neutrality of vulnerable countries, like Belgium.  The official reason given by Wilson for his change of heart was that (the Germans) using submarines was 'underhanded.'

These are simply not believable.

But I agree with you, that a system of alliances had been set up over the decades so that every European power would be dragged into a world war, if any minor dispute couldn't be resolved.  If the elites wanted war, the system worked perfectly!
  
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BobK71
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #15 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 10:48am
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100 years is long enough time to come up with a credible reason for joining a world war.

In the final analysis, what issue could possibly be big enough to engage the Western elites in a cataclysm of this size and nature?  Why could Britain not live with Germany as co-leaders of the world (this being the final answer given by the BBC program?)

The only thing big enough is the money system.  Britain was on the verge of default as it only had 3% of the gold required if every holder of its paper sterling wanted to redeem at the official rate.

As Nathan Rothschild said, 'give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes its laws.'  When the control of money itself is threatened, every means must be used to safeguard it.

The exact monetary system today is different, but the same basic concepts and mechanisms translate word-for-word between the two times.  Which is why we have our own wars...
  
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Jeff
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #16 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 3:43pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 10:48am:
100 years is long enough time to come up with a credible reason for joining a world war.

That wasn't done before the nation was taken to war? Are you sure?

The attempted destruction of all of our Pacific sea power in Pearl Harbor wasn't provocative enough for you?

Or are we talking about the Great War?

I'm sure you know the reasons that were put forth that made it compulsory that we join the Allies to prevent the Axis from taking over the world.

I can't remember all of it clearly, but I think making the world into a socialist paradise was mentioned. Not explicitly of course.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #17 - Nov 20th, 2018 at 8:43am
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A very good short synopsis of an often overlooked part of WWI and how it helped lead to today's Middle East problems-

https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/11/08/the-birth-of-the-middle-east/?utm_mediu...
  
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BobK71
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #18 - Nov 20th, 2018 at 11:25am
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I wrote, "The Great War is central to understanding the reality of this world."

Jeff wrote on Nov 14th, 2018 at 6:05pm:
What does it tell you about India or Vietnam? Or Malaysia or the Philippines or the Koreas? Or South and Central America?

Edit: Or today's China for that matter.


Jean-Claude Juncker (President of the European Commission) has been caught saying that, when things are serious enough, you have to lie.  What we find out here, for those who still need proof, is that murder isn't off the table, either.

My statement was made in the sense of the basic realities that govern all countries, Vietnam included.

A major part of this reality is that the narratives promoted by the Western elites and the academic and media mainstreams are fundamentally deceptive (by omission if not by commission.)  Why join this war?  It's a simple question, and there're no believable answers.

When the US government had to jail hundreds of people for speaking out against the war, and when the UK government had to hide six-digit death figures from single battles, and still go all-out for the war, there was something big that the war was protecting.

The only thing big enough that I can think of, for the US and UK, was the money system.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Remembering the First World War
Reply #19 - Nov 20th, 2018 at 5:23pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 20th, 2018 at 11:25am:
I wrote, "The Great War is central to understanding the reality of this world."


Jean-Claude Juncker (President of the European Commission) has been caught saying that, when things are serious enough, you have to lie.  What we find out here, for those who still need proof, is that murder isn't off the table, either.

My statement was made in the sense of the basic realities that govern all countries, Vietnam included.

A major part of this reality is that the narratives promoted by the Western elites and the academic and media mainstreams are fundamentally deceptive (by omission if not by commission.)  Why join this war?  It's a simple question, and there're no believable answers.

When the US government had to jail hundreds of people for speaking out against the war, and when the UK government had to hide six-digit death figures from single battles, and still go all-out for the war, there was something big that the war was protecting.

The only thing big enough that I can think of, for the US and UK, was the money system.
If you have power, it's easy to gain wealth, and the wealthier you get (and I'm speaking of governments here) the more power you can buy and wield.

The Pound Sterling and then the U.S. Dollar didn't become reserve currencies because other countries wanted to use them to help Britain and then the U.S. become more powerful, they became reserve currencies because they were sound money that was available for use in a world where sound money was rare and the available national currencies were prone to be worthless.

Wilson and at least some other powerful progressives in the federal government, I think, actually believed they could remake the world into a peaceful commonwealth, a League of Nations that would prevent another war from every breaking out and bring prosperity to the entire world.

Cynics in the government were lying and cooking up deals to make themselves rich off the war, and looking for ways to usurp power.

The European Empires had territorial ambitions as usual, or they had become fat and lazy and were doing progressive things (short of granting actual control of the government to the people, granting them actual individual liberty Shocked), so they ruined their economies (their central banks helped) and welcomed war as a way to take the people's minds off of revolution.

The theme of cronies making lots of money and governments gaining more power runs beneath all wars.

WWI wasn't to save America and the West from International Communism, but Korea and Vietnam were.

But cronies still got really rich and the government got more power.

WWII wasn't straightforward either. There was a realization that if the National Socialists controlled all of Europe, our primary markets of the time might be shut off. Sure, Stalin was willing to buy all the war materiel we'd sell him as long as we loaned him the money to buy it. Grin

There were a lot of rich powerful industrialists who wanted the war so they could remain prosperous.

If they were smart, they were aware that their large size made them vulnerable in times of rapid change. Stability is good for business and trade... War is pretty good too if you get government contracts...

  
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