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SkyChief
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Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Nov 17th, 2018 at 4:45pm
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John Stossel explores the unintended consequences of forcing corporations to pay workers a minimum wage.



But the real reason entry-level workers are living paycheck-to-paycheck is because of inflation.  Their raises simply cant keep up with the devaluation of the dollars they earn.

The reported  2.1% Inflation rate for 2017 is a LIE.   In real-world terms it was over double that - closer to 5%  - but average wage raises were less than 3%

No wonder the poor keep getting poorer.

US Government (Treasury Dept.):

STOP. PRINTING. MONEY. YOU. FOOLS.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
John Stossel explores the unintended consequences of forcing corporations to pay workers a minimum wage.



But the real reason entry-level workers are living paycheck-to-paycheck is because of inflation.  Their raises simply cant keep up with the devaluation of the dollars they earn.

The reported  2.1% Inflation rate for 2017 is a LIE.   In real-world terms it was over double that - closer to 5%  - but average wage raises were less than 3%

No wonder the poor keep getting poorer.

US Government (Treasury Dept.):

STOP. PRINTING. MONEY. YOU. FOOLS.


"If you work hard, you can make more money."  That is the phrase that arouses both fear and anger in the hearts of statists.

Alexis de Toqueville wrote about how different life was in Ohio, vs. Kentucky right across the river.  Ohio was free, with virtually no restrictions on liberties and little if any taxes.  Libertarians know that such a lack of government obstructionism allows men to rise to their natural state of industriousness.

"In Ohio," de Toqueville wrote, "it is difficult to find an idle man."  While in slave-holding Kentucky, men avoided work.  The felt that work was for slaves and therefore demeaning.  In the slave-holding Kentucky, men either worked under force or laid about living off of that work.

So, it is in today's modern forced-tax state.  The new leisure class is made up of people who turn up their noses at a "McJob" while learning to fill out the right forms with the right lies to live off those who are willing to work them in spite of having their sparse wages taxed so that politicians can buy the votes of the dolees.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 5:56pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 5:36pm:
"If you work hard, you can make more money."  That is the phrase that arouses both fear and anger in the hearts of statists.


Yes, because hard work only pays off in free economies with a rule of law. The empirical evidence is huge!

Statists don't like free economies because they are afraid (usually with justification) that they (the statists) will personally fail without government help.

They have delusions that they should be put in charge. Cheesy
  
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Jeff
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 5:36pm:
So, it is in today's modern forced-tax state.
It is not.

Chattel slavery does not exist today in any nation with a halfway modern form of government.

Your outrageous comparison fails at every level and every detail and is further flawed in that the two things derive from very different principles.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:01pm:
It is not.

Chattel slavery does not exist today in any nation with a halfway modern form of government.

Your outrageous comparison fails at every level and every detail and is further flawed in that the two things derive from very different principles.


You say it fails, but you can't say why.

Why is it wrong to say that welfare recipients are a leisure class? They have more than the lowest-paid workers, and they don't have to work for it.

In fact, in a way the welfare class has more than middle-class workers too. They don't have to save for anything, worry about how they'll pay if they get sick - all of their money is pure disposable income, for whatever they want. Everything is taken care of. They probably come out ahead of those without that luxury.

How is this not royalty?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:01pm:
It is not.

Chattel slavery does not exist today in any nation with a halfway modern form of government.


Conscription still exists, even in the U.S.  That is a far worse form of slavery than slavery for the purposes of forced labor without compensation.

Stealing earned wealth steal labor also, just not all of it as in the case of chattel slavery.  Although, since you have consistently refused to specify any limit on the percent of earnings any individual should be force to pay, stealing all of it is not out the question for you.

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Your outrageous comparison fails at every level and every detail and is further flawed in that the two things derive from very different principles.


No, they come from the same principle exactly:  that by banding together to form a government, groups of individuals can morally do things that it would be clearly immoral for them to do individually or even in a group if they did not call it government.

That's the fundamental theorem of statism:  That by calling yourselves "a government" you convert actions that are clearly wrong into actions that are right.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:00pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You say it fails, but you can't say why.

Legal taxation is not chattel slavery, that's why.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:04pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Conscription still exists, even in the U.S.  That is a far worse form of slavery than slavery for the purposes of forced labor without compensation.
No one has been conscripted in the U.S. since the Vietnam war.

Conscription into the military is not chattel slavery anyway, but, chattel slaves in America got food and clothing and shelter and often health care in exchange for their forced labor. They were still slaves deemed property under the law, but soldiers, even conscripted soldiers, are not someone's legally protected property.
  
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
No one has been conscripted in the U.S. since the Vietnam war.


My four sons were forced to register for the draft even though three of them already served in the military and are in the inactive reserve.  The fact that the government isn't drafting people at the moment doesn't change the fact that it claims the right to with your eager support.  Only the most craven coward supports conscription. 

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Conscription into the military is not chattel slavery anyway,


No, it's worse.

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but, chattel slaves in America got food and clothing and shelter and often health care in exchange for their forced labor. They were still slaves deemed property under the law,


They also were not forced to kill and die in foreign lands nor drown in the ocean trying to drown others.  That's why conscription is worse.  Your justification for it?

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but soldiers, even conscripted soldiers, are not someone's legally protected property.


Yes, it isn't chattel slavery.  But it is worse.

You support it, correct?

  

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Jeff
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Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
No, they come from the same principle exactly:  that by banding together to form a government, groups of individuals can morally do things that it would be clearly immoral for them to do individually or even in a group if they did not call it government.
What?

I suppose if the groups of individuals that gathered together to decide decided to tyrannize people, they might get away with it, but the only 'moral' principle involved would be tribal jungle law.

Libertarian principles require much higher standards. Legitimate governments can only be constituted as servants. It is not moral to constitute a tyrannical government.
  
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