Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists (Read 339 times)
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 8088
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:20pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:00pm:
Legal taxation is not chattel slavery, that's why.


Okay, so why didn't the old-time slavemasters just enact a "black person tax" on every Negro who didn't donate his labour to a white land-holder?

According to you, that's okay.

Proof that libertarians are notorious scam artists who don't care how people suffer as long as it's not called the wrong thing.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 36167
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:27pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Okay, so why didn't the old-time slavemasters just enact a "black person tax" on every Negro who didn't donate his labour to a white land-holder?

What? Black people in America were almost all second class citizens at best and property at worst.

It was evil and immoral. No libertarian gave it moral approval, then or now.

It was not remotely comparable to legal taxation.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 8088
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #12 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:37pm
Print Post  
"...just another craven opportunist."

"Scheming with government to see which politicians would squeeze their taxpayers most [for the Amazon headquarters]."

"Government shouldn't pander to corporations."

He hit on the only serious problem with capitalism. The rich can pay the government off, and they always do. Capitalism creates rich people who will do whatever they need to, to make a buck. Those who shook their heads and had limits to what they would do, didn't become rich. Then Stossel gets upset because the rich people scheme with government? Lol.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 36167
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #13 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:43pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
He hit on the only serious problem with capitalism. The rich can pay the government off, and they always do.
That's a well known problem that arises when governments have too much power, it's called government corruption and has nothing at all to do with free markets.

If you simply object to people getting rich, that's fine.

Probably you are aware that Lords and Barons used their wealth to buy special favors from the King's government? It's the same problem you complain of, and nothing to do with having a free economy.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 36167
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #14 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:46pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
"...just another craven opportunist."

"Scheming with government to see which politicians would squeeze their taxpayers most [for the Amazon headquarters]."

"Government shouldn't pander to corporations."

Stossel is talking about corrupt government pandering to craven opportunists, not indicting free markets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 8088
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #15 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:48pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Stossel is talking about corrupt government pandering to craven opportunists, not indicting free markets.


No. Watch the video. He's talking about how entrepreneurs just end up in bed with the government, becoming the worst enemies of capitalism.

My reply is: Of course they do. Capitalism rewards people who pull out all the stops to make a buck and you're going to get upset when they don't just take the easiest path: Lobby the government?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 36167
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #16 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 1:13pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
No. Watch the video. He's talking about how entrepreneurs just end up in bed with the government, becoming the worst enemies of capitalism.

Only if the government is powerful and corrupt does that happen.
Businesses didn't lobby the government for legislative favors until the government had usurped the power to hand out favors.
Businesses didn't ask for cash handouts until the government was awash in a flood of poorly accounted for tax revenue and had usurped the power to give cash handouts to specific businesses.

As I said, Lords and Barons did the same thing with Kings when there was no free economy to be seen.
It is not a problem of a free economy, it is a problem of corrupt government, unlimited corrupt government.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 8088
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #17 - Nov 18th, 2018 at 7:30pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 1:13pm:
Businesses didn't lobby the government for legislative favors until the government had usurped the power to hand out favors.


That's a lie. Businesses lobbied the government to have the power to "regulate their own industries" and as a result, the government usurped that power and handed it to them.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 36167
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #18 - Nov 19th, 2018 at 7:09am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Nov 18th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
That's a lie. Businesses lobbied the government to have the power to "regulate their own industries" and as a result, the government usurped that power and handed it to them.
The whole idea of America is that people will regulate themselves provided that there is a rule of law and a means of enforcement to minimize theft and fraud and force of all kinds.

Corporations and businesses are legal fictions. They are owned and controlled by people who will largely regulate themselves etc.

The right to regulate yourself and your business is a natural right. It can't be given, it can only be infringed.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 715
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
Re: Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Reply #19 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 12:32pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Nov 17th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
But the real reason entry-level workers are living paycheck-to-paycheck is because of inflation.  Their raises simply cant keep up with the devaluation of the dollars they earn.

The reported  2.1% Inflation rate for 2017 is a LIE. 


The major problem is that inflation or deflation is basically controlled by the state, rather than the free market.  Whether we have either is determined by what serves the interests of the top financial and political elites.

An archtypical scenario in the modern world is that the elites keep creating money and telling us that there is plenty of real progress to suck up that money.  The extra wealth acquired by the well-to-do causes many people to pursue careers in luxury services and products.  When the lie of progress has become transparent enough for financial assets to crash, the demand for the luxuries is gone and the average person is impoverished, in one way or another.  The well-to-do buy up real resources, including labor, cheap, thus notching up another cycle's worth of increased inequality.

True, inflation is part of the robbery too, but IMO a smaller picture.  During times of high inflation, it is in general creditors who are robbed in favor of debtors.  It's not clear this increases inequality, and in fact we probably have the opposite, in such a scenario.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Enemy Of Capitalism: Capitalists
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy