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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General (Read 676 times)
Jeff
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #50 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 4:18pm:
The slavers?
Slavers were the useful idiots of the classical liberals who created America. It was hoped that they would realize the immorality of what they were doing and stop, but, as you know, they didn't. They were ignorant and evil to the end and forced a bloody war to end slavery on America.
  
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #51 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 4:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 4:39pm:
Slavers Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin and John Hancock were the useful idiots of the classical liberals who created America. It was hoped that they would realize the immorality of what they were doing and stop, but, as you know, they didn't. They were ignorant and evil to the end and forced a bloody war to end slavery on America.


Fixed that for you. 

Useful idiots?  Washington and Jefferson?

That’s really your position?
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #52 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:19pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
 

Useful idiots?  Washington and Jefferson?


No dolt, the genuinely liberal founders of America used the slavers to help insure the survival of America and it's founding principles, which did not include human chattel slavery.

The true liberals, not being able to believe that slavery wouldn't disappear on it's own, and not knowing how to end it, used the slavers and hoped for the best... Unfortunately, the slavers wanted to not only continue human chattel slavery, but expand it. Cry

Thus, the bloody war to end slavery in America was forced by the slavers. Angry
  
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #53 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:19pm:
No dolt, the genuinely liberal founders of America used the slavers to help insure the survival of America and it's founding principles, which did not include human chattel slavery.

The true liberals, not being able to believe that slavery wouldn't disappear on it's own, and not knowing how to end it, used the slavers and hoped for the best... Unfortunately, the slavers wanted to not only continue human chattel slavery, but expand it. Cry

Thus, the bloody war to end slavery in America was forced by the slavers. Angry



Washington and Jefferson were just slavers but not useful idiots??
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #54 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:39pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Washington and Jefferson were just slavers but not useful idiots??
You know nothing of the thought of Washington and Jefferson?

How can that be?
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #55 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 7:49am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2018 at 5:39pm:
You know nothing of the thought of Washington and Jefferson?

How can that be?


Because I'm a  mind scientist, not a mind reader.

I do know the behavior of Washington and Jefferson, which was deplorable.  Madison was also a slaver and he largely authored a constitution which specifically protected the institution of slavery.


  

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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #56 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:21am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 7:49am:
Because I'm a  mind scientist, not a mind reader.

I do know the behavior of Washington and Jefferson, which was deplorable.  Madison was also a slaver and he largely authored a constitution which specifically protected the institution of slavery.


Once again, your ignorance of the large body of writings left to us by the founders of America is all that allows you to portray Washington Jefferson and Madison as evil slavers. They were in fact people who inherited the institution of slavery from the British and couldn't figure out a way to end it that wouldn't lead to a great disaster for everyone involved.

Simply freeing the slaves that an individual owned didn't have good results at all, and all of them knew it. In many cases where slaves were freed, they chose to stay and serve their former masters. In many cases where they left after being freed, they were re-enslaved by someone else before they could get to a free state. Even if they reached a free state, they were frequently claimed as slaves by someone who didn't own them and returned to slave states. In almost all cases, even in free states, they were unwelcome, looked on as inferior and given jobs fit only for slaves at wages that usually didn't allow them to live as well as they had when they were slaves.

You call the behavior of Washington Madison and Jefferson "deplorable" because you fail to understand the realities facing freed slaves in America. They were in fact very moral men, greatly conflicted over their inability to find a solution to slavery and keeping slaves because they knew that freeing them would be, in almost every case, worse for the people they freed than keeping them as slaves.

Washington, Jefferson and Madison were not breeders of slaves for profit. They didn't separate families or "sell slaves South". They didn't murder slaves or beat them. There were people that owned slaves who did such things, but they were not the people that created America or framed the Constitution... They were the people who refused to join the Union unless their "property rights in slaves" were protected.

That the founders of America believed the survival of the new nation depended on having the slave states join the Union is certain, as it is also certain that they believed that economics would make slavery unprofitable and the institution would fade away without war, be outlawed by state governments in more and more states until it was gone from America.
  
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #57 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:33am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Once again, your ignorance of the large body of writings left to us by the founders of America is all that allows you to portray Washington Jefferson and Madison as evil slavers. They were in fact people who inherited the institution of slavery from the British and couldn't figure out a way to end it that wouldn't lead to a great disaster for everyone involved.


They could have started by freeing their own slaves and offering them wages and room and board for doing the same work that they had been forced to do all of their lives.

Explain how that would have lead to a great disaster for anyone involved.  Please be specific.

BTW:  Jefferson not getting free teenage nookie would not fall under the category of "great disaster."

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #58 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:33am:
They could have started by freeing their own slaves and offering them wages and room and board for doing the same work that they had been forced to do all of their lives.

Explain how that would have lead to a great disaster for anyone involved.  Please be specific.
Make them tenant farmers like the Jim Crow South did after the war to end slavery? How great was that?

Perhaps you're overlooking that slave families were supported by these men. They fed and clothed those too young or too old to work, and they tried to cure illnesses when they could. And they provided shelter. The freed slaves would have to be paid enough to house and feed and provide clothing and medical care and education for their families on the wages they would be paid, which means white labor would get the jobs and the freed slaves would become vagrants and thieves or simply be hung. Their healthy adolescent children would probably be re-enslaved by someone else.
  
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Re: Rubber Dogshit at the Dollar General
Reply #59 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:16pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
Make them tenant farmers like the Jim Crow South did after the war to end slavery? How great was that?

Perhaps you're overlooking that slave families were supported by these men. They fed and clothed those too young or too old to work, and they tried to cure illnesses when they could. And they provided shelter. The freed slaves would have to be paid enough to house and feed and provide clothing and medical care and education for their families on the wages they would be paid, which means white labor would get the jobs and the freed slaves would become vagrants and thieves or simply be hung. Their healthy adolescent children would probably be re-enslaved by someone else.


Why would white labour have gotten the jobs?

Because they didn't have children to feed? Old people to look after?

Well, some didn't, admittedly. Back then, families were larger, but not everyone had families. You married when you could afford to, which, for a lot of people, was never.

It's almost like what I was saying about how the free market drives the cost of labour down to subsistence, but not the cost of subsistence + children, is absolutely true.

I like how you fully admit any shortcomings of the free market whenever it helps your case. Here, you say that black populations were better off under slavery than released to compete in the free market.

I actually agree with this. If people are owned, they are a resource, and the owners are forced to pay for their reproduction, or else run out of that resource and have to buy more, so children will be supported. If people are not owned, the cost of children is something no landowner is ever forced to bear. He will simply let the current population die off and import labour from the third world.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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