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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools (Read 698 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #30 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:34am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 5:39pm:
Why not let the free market give parents the controlling voice?  Private schools educate children far better for far less money.


I agree, and perhaps they would be charitable and offer to educate the children of parents who couldn't afford their tuition.

When you convince some small town to stop levying taxes, probably they will also end public schooling in their town and we'll find out how it works out.

In the meantime, giving parents vouchers for the full amount spent on their children in the public schools and letting them choose where to spend the money is what I think should be done.

Perhaps public schools would gradually disappear. Perhaps not.

What's your plan? End taxation and end public schooling... I see a rough transition period while enough private schools are created to educate all the children whose parents can afford it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #31 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:39am:
"The Community" just amounts to a weaselly way to say bullying is fine.
Communities of humans have always entered into cooperative ventures that they thought would benefit their communities. I don't see any way to stop them from doing it nor do I think it would be a good idea.

  
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #32 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:38am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:39am:
But let's assume there's a positive right to an education for every child.
Let's not. No such right exists or can exist.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #33 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:10am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:34am:
I agree, and perhaps they would be charitable and offer to educate the children of parents who couldn't afford their tuition.

When you convince some small town to stop levying taxes, probably they will also end public schooling in their town and we'll find out how it works out.


Which we know will be very well since there are countless examples of private schools and they are nearly always more successful and more costs efficient than public schools.

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In the meantime, giving parents vouchers for the full amount spent on their children in the public schools and letting them choose where to spend the money is what I think should be done.


Why not just cut out the middle man and "let" them choose to keep their own money and spend it how they judge best?

What is your evidence that anyone besides the earners and creators of wealth is the best judge of how to spend it?  Please be specific.

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Perhaps public schools would gradually disappear. Perhaps not.
Any parent who cares about their child's education would immediately pull them out of public school.  Whatever percent would be left would be those whose parents don't care and their teachers would have less money with which to teach them.  Explain how that will come out well for them.  Please be specific.

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What's your plan? End taxation and end public schooling... I see a rough transition period while enough private schools are created to educate all the children whose parents can afford it.


There would be a transition period as parents vied for limited space in existing public schools.  I predict that it would last about one semester as entrepreneurs created schools to meet the new demand for real education.

Explain why you don't think the free market works?  Please be specific.



  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #34 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:12am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:37am:
Communities of humans have always entered into cooperative ventures that they thought would benefit their communities. I don't see any way to stop them from doing it nor do I think it would be a good idea.



Six people forcing four people to pay for things that only the six want is not a cooperative venture. 

It doesn't magically become cooperative if the numbers are six hundred and four hundred, six thousand and four thousand, or six million and four million.

Unless you can tell me the number range in which a "community" derives the "right to tax."

Please be specific, thanks.

  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #35 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:19am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:38am:
Let's not. No such right exists or can exist.


If there can't be a right to an education, then communities can't create one.

A right is the only way you can take from one person, and give to another.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #36 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:09pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:10am:
Why not just cut out the middle man and "let" them choose to keep their own money and spend it how they judge best?


Fine. Figure out how to do it and go ahead. It will differ from a voucher program in that some of the parents don't pay much in taxes now and won't be able to afford private school tuition.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #37 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:10pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:10am:
Any parent who cares about their child's education would immediately pull them out of public school.  Whatever percent would be left would be those whose parents don't care and their teachers would have less money with which to teach them.  Explain how that will come out well for them.  Please be specific.
I don't know. Probably some (most?) of those children are the ones who drop out of school now.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #38 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:09pm:
Fine. Figure out how to do it and go ahead.


What's to figure out?  Just stop stealing the taxes and stop giving the money to public schools.

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It will differ from a voucher program in that some of the parents don't pay much in taxes now and won't be able to afford private school tuition.


What's your point?

  

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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #39 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 11:10am:
Explain why you don't think the free market works?  Please be specific.



Free markets do work. If no public schools had ever been created, we'd probably have a thriving private school system that some parents wouldn't be able to afford. Charity would most likely take up the slack.

My belief is, it will be much more feasible to talk parents and others in the community into taking control of their local schools than it will be to talk people into abolishing public schooling entirely, so that's what we should try to do, choose what is better and feasible rather than holding out for some ideal.
  
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