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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #60 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:35am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 7:57am:
No,  my solution is the stop pretending that it isn't stealing when government does it as long as it's stealing to buy us something we really, really want.
The process that allows free people to create governments to serve them by protecting their lives and property and liberty also allows free people to grant the power of taxation to those governments.

When the taxing power is legally granted to the government by the people, the exercise of that legally granted power is not theft.

Local communities are free to create or not create public schools...

They have been creating them since colonial times, not because the colonial or state or federal government told them they had to, but because they wanted to.

They saw (and see) offering an opportunity to get an education to every child in the community as a good thing for everyone involved.

Here's a little history-

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/2334/Private-Schooling.html
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #61 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:24am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:35am:
The process that allows free people to create governments to serve them by protecting their lives and property and liberty also allows free people to grant the power of taxation to those governments.

When the taxing power is legally granted to the government by the people, the exercise of that legally granted power is not theft.


Where in nature does one group of humans get the right to tax another group of humans merely by voting to do so?

If it is not a natural right, what kind of right is it? 

It cannot be anything but the will of the collective, correct?

Quote:
Local communities are free to create or not create public schools...

They have been creating them since colonial times, not because the colonial or state or federal government told them they had to, but because they wanted to.

They saw (and see) offering an opportunity to get an education to every child in the community as a good thing for everyone involved.



It isn't good for a person who has no children and isn't interested in paying for other people's kids' education.  It also isn't good for people who prefer not to sent there kids to public schools and can't afford private schools since they pay so much taxes for public schools.

  

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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #62 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 4:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 10:24am:
Where in nature does one group of humans get the right to tax another group of humans merely by voting to do so?


When the U.S. Constitution was created and ratified, people were quite a ways beyond "nature". They were actually quite civilized, tolerant and liberal minded people who set about creating a government that would preserve the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity.

They did a pretty good job at something that had never been done before. The world's elites of the time predicted it wouldn't last 10 years.

Part of the approved plan of government was a strictly limited power of taxation. Every type of tax imaginable then, now or in our future is limited by the Constitutional Rules of apportionment and uniformity.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #63 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 6:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
Every type of tax imaginable then, now or in our future is limited by the Constitutional Rules of apportionment and uniformity.

Nothing is written in stone. Any Part of the Constitution is subject to revision. 

The founders wisely wrote Article V which allows any Amendment to be repealed. The states can convene and repeal taxation with a 2/3 approval.

The time to repeal the 16th Amendment is long overdue.  It never should have been ratified to begin with! What were they thinking??

The income tax has become "a terror and torment to the honest citizen."

"Income taxes are responsible for the transformation of the Federal government from one of limited powers into a vast leviathan whose tentacles reach into almost every aspect of American life." - Ron Paul
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #64 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:08am
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Nothing is written in stone. Any Part of the Constitution is subject to revision. 

The founders wisely wrote Article V which allows any Amendment to be repealed. The states can convene and repeal taxation with a 2/3 approval.

The time to repeal the 16th Amendment is long overdue.  It never should have been ratified to begin with! What were they thinking??

The income tax has become "a terror and torment to the honest citizen."

"Income taxes are responsible for the transformation of the Federal government from one of limited powers into a vast leviathan whose tentacles reach into almost every aspect of American life." - Ron Paul
It takes 3/4 of the states agreeing to amend the Constitution Chief.

2/3 of the state legislatures can only call a convention, which isn't actually a convention of the states, it's a convention consisting of people chosen by the states to represent the states in the convention.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #65 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:23am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
When the U.S. Constitution was created and ratified, people were quite a ways beyond "nature". They were actually quite civilized, tolerant and liberal minded people who set about creating a government that would preserve the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity.

They did a pretty good job at something that had never been done before. The world's elites of the time predicted it wouldn't last 10 years.

Part of the approved plan of government was a strictly limited power of taxation. Every type of tax imaginable then, now or in our future is limited by the Constitutional Rules of apportionment and uniformity.


Income taxes are not limited by apportionment.

  

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SkyChief
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #66 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:38am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:08am:
It takes 3/4 of the states agreeing to amend the Constitution Chief.



Thanks.   I guess the point I was trying to make is that bad Constitutional Laws can be repealed.

The 18th Amendment was a bad Law.  It ruined countless American lives.  They (wisely) repealed it.

The 16th Amendment was and remains a bad Law.  It ruins the lives of the unfortunate half of Americans who are forced to pay it.

It's time to repeal it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #67 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:01pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Income taxes are not limited by apportionment.

Right, but taxes on incomes are limited by the Rule of uniformity... another common word you can't grasp the meaning of. Cry

It's the Direct taxes, like taxes on the fruits of your own labor of whatever kind that must be apportioned.

Are you slow witted lad?
  
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #68 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:15pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:01pm:
Right, but taxes on incomes are limited by the Rule of uniformity... another common word you can't grasp the meaning of. Cry

It's the Direct taxes, like taxes on the fruits of your own labor of whatever kind that must be apportioned.

Are you slow witted lad?


Quote:
I guess so, but so must the justices on the Supreme Court:In Executive Life Ins. Co. v. Commonwealth, 147 Pa. Commw. 105 (Pa. Commw. Ct. 1992), the court held that “the Uniformity Clause means that the classification by the legislative body must be reasonable and the tax must be applied with uniformity upon similar kinds of business or property and with substantial equality of the tax burden to all members of the same class.”


I guess that's the problem with representative democracy.  Our elected representatives keep giving slow-witted people judicial power over cases arising under the constitution.


  

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Jeff
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Re: The Problem of Left Curriculum in Public Schools
Reply #69 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:15pm:
I guess that's the problem with representative democracy.
As far as I know, that's not the kind of government we have here.

We have a Constitutional Republic.

Your precious "progressive" SCOTUS has interpreted our Constitutional Republic into being a representative democracy, but their interpretation is a lie.
  
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