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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Paris Is Burning (Read 896 times)
Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #10 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 7:24am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 8th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
They will, unfailingly, select aggression and protectionism over annihilation and moral right...
If I prohibit trespass on my property, you consider that to be aggression?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #11 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 7:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 8th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Thus, if the end goal is morality, it becomes logical to... not give them a choice.

It really depends if you believe the ends of ending State aggression, justifies the means of minor aggression against people who are, themselves, major aggressors.

I honestly couldn't tell you.
Yes, you are obviously extremely confused.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #12 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 11:51am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 7:22am:
You keep making this assertion, but your arguments as to why open borders are "right" are not persuasive. All you say is "because the right to travel freely", which you claim is an absolute right that trumps all other rights...


That's not what I say at all. I cite the Libertarian Party Website, which says they have the right to travel freely.

As long as rights are negative, they can, theoretically, all be respected. The right to travel does not need to trump your rights, because you don't have any which would restrict them, except from your own property.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 1:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 11:51am:
That's not what I say at all. I cite the Libertarian Party Website, which says they have the right to travel freely.

As long as rights are negative, they can, theoretically, all be respected. The right to travel does not need to trump your rights, because you don't have any which would restrict them, except from your own property.
n the same way that a corporation can control access of people onto it's property, a nation can control access into it's territory.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #14 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 1:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
In the same way that a corporation can control access of people onto it's property, a nation can control access into it's territory.


You're delusional. Your property is yours, not the government's. You should be able to invite whoever you like onto it.

If you can't see that, you're not a libertarian, even a little bit.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #15 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
Your property is yours, not the government's.

Except when government takes it. Then your property belongs to the government.


"Personal property, also referred to as movable property, is anything other than land that can be the subject of ownership, including stocks, money, notes, Patents, copyrights, etc."

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Property+Law
  
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Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #16 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:28pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
You're delusional. Your property is yours, not the government's. You should be able to invite whoever you like onto it.

Anyone that the federal government says can legally enter the U.S. can be invited onto my property. I can even invite foreign terrorists into my home if they've managed to get into the U.S. but I would probably be breaking the law to do so.

I'm a classical liberal and mostly rational. Open borders are simply not rational under current conditions in the U.S. and the world.

Are libertarians all irrational?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #17 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:30pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:01pm:
Except when government takes it. Then your property belongs to the government.


"Personal property, also referred to as movable property, is anything other than land that can be the subject of ownership, including stocks, money, notes, Patents, copyrights, etc."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Property+Law
That's true. When the government taxes you in legal ways, the money you pay the government becomes revenue for the government to use to accomplish it's authorized purposes.

  
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SkyChief
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #18 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:30pm:
That's true. When the government taxes you in legal ways, the money you pay the government becomes revenue for the government to use to accomplish it's authorized purposes.


Of course, there's a small constitutional problem with legal ways government takes property.

Amendment V "Takings" Clause:

“nor shall private property (my money) be taken for public use (wealth redistribution) without just compensation.”

The government has taken nearly $1Million from me over the past 45 years.

I never got any "just compensation".  Nothing. 

What steps must I take to claim my "just compensation"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Paris Is Burning
Reply #19 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 2:41pm:
Of course, there's a small constitutional problem with legal ways government takes property.

Amendment V "Takings" Clause:

“nor shall private property (my money) be taken for public use (wealth redistribution) without just compensation.”

The government has taken nearly $1Million from me over the past 45 years.

I never got any "just compensation".  Nothing. 

What steps must I take to claim my "just compensation"?
You are really confused about eminent domain takings and taxation?

I agree that wealth redistribution is unconstitutional and that taxing your wages/salary without apportionment is unconstitutional too, but taxation is very different from eminent domain takings.

Anyway, giving some individual a welfare or disability check is a private benefit to that individual, not a "public use".
  
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