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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Carbon Tax Scam (Read 390 times)
Jeff
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #10 - Dec 18th, 2018 at 7:05pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 5:22pm:
This was the plan you linked for the lobsters.


Viewing the oceans as a commons is the problem, property rights are the solution.
Right, protected property rights and free competition.


[/quote]
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #11 - Dec 18th, 2018 at 9:43pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Right, protected property rights and free competition.


Right. Once you turn all the lobsters over to TunaCo and SquishyFish Inc, people will freely compete to buy and most efficiently make use of those lobsters.

...Which is what you called me an asshole and a liar for saying you said, when I just proved you did say it.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 7:50am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Right. Once you turn all the lobsters over to TunaCo and SquishyFish Inc...
Fishing rights to specific areas can be auctioned off. (That's different from "turning over" rights.)

Once the rights are privately owned, the people who bought them will discover if they made a good investment, or not. Some will profit from their investment in fishing rights, some won't. Some will profit initially, but find that changing conditions and changing lobster populations and changing markets for lobster make their investment unprofitable, so they will offer their fishing rights for sale. People who own the rights to harvest lobsters in specific areas will protect the lobsters in their area to ensure a continued profitable supply of lobsters so they can continue to make money. Lobster thieves can be prosecuted just like any other thieves, no special bureaucracy will be needed. People who pollute the water and harm the lobsters can be prosecuted for torts under the common law.

I know you are incapable of understanding how markets protected by a rule of law work, so that explanation is almost certainly wasted on you.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 12:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 7:50am:
Fishing rights to specific areas can be auctioned off. (That's different from "turning over" rights.)


Yes, after they're turned over. Read your own link. Big Fish gets its share, and then, if it wants to, it can sell it.

Do I get a share, as I have now? Nope. Those are Big Fish's lobsters. I have to pay if I want to take one.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 3:11pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 12:39pm:
Yes, after they're turned over. Read your own link. Big Fish gets its share, and then, if it wants to, it can sell it.

Do I get a share, as I have now? Nope. Those are Big Fish's lobsters. I have to pay if I want to take one.
The article I linked to described a system that is not actually property rights in the fishery, it's just a step in that direction, and you are correct that half steps are generally flawed.

In an auction of fishing rights, you would have a chance to bid to acquire them. If you didn't, then yes, someone else would buy the rights and harvest the lobsters and you would have to buy them from them if you wanted lobster just like you do now, for Maine lobster anyway.

Certainly current lobster fishermen would bid on the rights and often submit the high bids and get to buy the rights.

You are imagining that the government, which wold be auctioning off the fishing rights, would sell them all to one large corporation and then take regulatory action to break up the monopoly they just created? Perhaps, but it seems unlikely, and most probably they would reserve waters off of state and federal parks for individual harvesting just like they do now.

In any case, the end result will be better and the fisheries will be better protected as property than as a regulated commons.


  
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The Opposition
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #15 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 4:15pm
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I've asked you this before.

You want a system that does not let me go and get my five lobsters, as I'm allowed to now.

Fine. Just prove that the lobsters I took from the commons of the ocean were actually stolen from Big Fish, and I will support the government enforcing those property rights for Big Fish.

If you can't prove I stole those lobsters from Big Fish, your solution is anti-libertarian.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #16 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 4:15pm:
You want a system that does not let me go and get my five lobsters, as I'm allowed to now.

You like it that bureaucrats and experts manage the King's commons and allow you to harvest some of the King's lobsters when they think it's a good management policy.

I think free markets and property rights will do a much better job protecting the future availability of lobsters. You will have to buy lobsters, you will no longer get any for "free", but someone will have to pay taxes to support the bureaucracies and their enforcement arms so that maybe you can continue to get "free" lobsters.
  
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #17 - Dec 26th, 2018 at 3:21pm
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Jeff
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Re: Carbon Tax Scam
Reply #18 - Dec 26th, 2018 at 3:28pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 26th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
What about all the businesses that go bankrupt and all the jobs that will be lost?
  
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