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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian? (Read 963 times)
Jeff
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #10 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:11am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 9:36pm:
I said an even number between six and eight.

You're tricky all right. Smiley

The number 6.2 is a thing. It is itself. If you think the number 6.2 is not itself, you are having problems perceiving reality.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:24am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 9:36pm:
You would lose rights and freedoms under a libertarian system because the government artificially caters to you already.

Letting the market decide would produce the rules people want, and only the moneyed would have a say. You would get what is effectively progressivism.

Do you want to talk about a libertarian society, or a libertarian "system"?

In a libertarian society, everyone would be a libertarian and have already internalized the rules and would respect the rights and property of others.

A libertarian "system" would have a rule of law enforced by limited governments that would adjudicate transgressions against the rights and property of others but otherwise leave them free. Such a "system" does not require that everyone be a libertarian, just that everyone obey the laws that protect everyone's rights and property equally.

The "rules" in either a libertarian society or a libertarian "system" are not decided by markets.

Free markets set (and adjust) prices and interest rates and allocate resources to their best uses, but they don't legislate or enforce legislation.

If you want theft and force to be illegal, you have to look outside markets for the means to accomplish that... Absent of course having a libertarian society where no one will steal or use force to begin with, so such un-libertarian things won't exist or need to be made illegal. Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 1:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:11am:
You're tricky all right. Smiley

The number 6.2 is a thing. It is itself. If you think the number 6.2 is not itself, you are having problems perceiving reality.


http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EvenNumber.html

Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:24am:
The "rules" in either a libertarian society or a libertarian "system" are not decided by markets.


That's incorrect. Private Courts and Private Security Companies would decide every day who to enforce against, and who not to, based on nothing but market pressure.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2018 at 3:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
That's incorrect. Private Courts and Private Security Companies would decide every day who to enforce against, and who not to, based on nothing but market pressure.
Right. Each private court and security company would compete against the others using their own set of rules which could be changed at will to suit the customer.

Free markets don't work without a stable framework of understandable laws that are equally enforced.

What you are imagining is anarchy at worst and competing gangs at best.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2018 at 4:49pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2018 at 3:14pm:
There's simply a stronger demand for private courts that do things like correcting social injustices.
On what planet?

What do you consider to be a "social injustice"?

What does "liberal" mean?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #15 - Dec 22nd, 2018 at 2:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 20th, 2018 at 4:49pm:
On what planet?

What do you consider to be a "social injustice"?

What does "liberal" mean?


You know exactly what these terms mean in context.

You just pretend not to understand in order to win, as usual.

You're living proof that the free market does not work. Institutions built up over thousands of years that have everyone doing the thing that's best for everyone will be torn down in an instant, and society looted and pillaged by people like you who prefer the extreme self-beneficial choice.

Winning arguments by using your tactics is a perfect example.

If everyone debates honestly, the whole is elevated and truth discovered.

If everyone uses sophistry and tactics like yours, no one wins.

But if everyone is using honesty, and one person starts using dirty tactics, that person wins at everyone else's expense.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #16 - Dec 22nd, 2018 at 5:08pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 2:57pm:
You know exactly what these terms mean in context.

In your "context"? Not really...

Out of any context, the word "liberal" has a meaning, all by itself, standing alone.

What is the essential meaning, to you, of the word "liberal"?

As to the phrase "social injustice", it's never had any meaning to me anywhere, either standing alone or in context, so you'll be required (for credit) to explain it's various possible meanings. Get busy. Thanks. Smiley
  
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What If?
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 3:32am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:24am:
Such a "system" does not require that everyone be a libertarian, just that everyone obey the laws that protect everyone's rights and property equally.


Who decides on these laws? Do they have regular referendums to vote on laws?
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 8:24am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 5:08pm:
As to the phrase "social injustice", it's never had any meaning to me anywhere, either standing alone or in context,


Your argument for allowing children whose parents cannot or will not pay for their schooling to get it at the expense of children whose parents can and will pay for their schooling is an argument against what you perceive as a social injustice, whether you are honest enough to use that term or not.  Your argument that it benefits the community for all children to be educated is an argument for force in service so social good whether you want to use that term or not.
  

Snarky no more!
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kaz
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Re: Would a Libertarian Society be Libertarian?
Reply #19 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 8:38am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 2:57pm:
You know exactly what these terms mean in context.

You just pretend not to understand in order to win, as usual.

You're living proof that the free market does not work. Institutions built up over thousands of years that have everyone doing the thing that's best for everyone will be torn down in an instant, and society looted and pillaged by people like you who prefer the extreme self-beneficial choice.

Winning arguments by using your tactics is a perfect example.

If everyone debates honestly, the whole is elevated and truth discovered.

If everyone uses sophistry and tactics like yours, no one wins.

But if everyone is using honesty, and one person starts using dirty tactics, that person wins at everyone else's expense.


Classic.  You're right about Enos of course.  And it's exactly what you keep doing to me.  Misquote after misquote after misquote.

Wouldn't it be more interesting to follow your own advice and have a real discussion?  Say about why I say government isn't about fairness?  I won't delve into an explanation of what I mean by that when I'm responding to yet another round of your misquoting me
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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